Please Die Fighting for My Rights - Page 7

carrie721 · #91 08-12-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I would not say it is arrogant in the true sense of that term. I would use something like ethnocentric instead. I watched a show the other day on Wiccans. When asked if they were satan worshippers, against God, etc. One replied that they could not answer that. The questioner took that to mean yes, they were satan worshippers. The Wiccan then explained that the question could not be answered because they did not believe in the concept of satan, God, Heaven, or hell.

I think that applies here. Brandon used the term baseless within the confines of Christianity, which is his religion, and other major religions of the world. He is correct from that vantage point. However, he is incorrect to assume the existence of any foundation for an atheistic belief in one who does not believe in Christianity. In other words, Christian axioms cannot be applied against someone who does not believe in Chriatianity at all.

hang on suzanne, let me pull out your favorite argument technique

ar·ro·gant (ăr'ə-gənt) pronunciation
adj.

1. Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.
2. Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others: an arrogant contempt for the weak.

i think that that level of ethnocentricity (if that's what you want to call it) clearly displays "a sense of overbearing self-worth."

Quote:

I think a more correct reply would have been, there is no bases in Christianity or any of the world's other religions for your belief in no God at all. That statement is true and cannot be proven false.

i agree, but i don't think he was trying to say there is no base for her beliefs in christianity. i think he was trying to say that her beliefs weren't valid at all.

Stew_Matthews · #92 08-12-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

First of all, hey there!

Second, I likely feel the opposite. I have around the world and the main thing I got and continue to get is mankind, for whatever reason, flocks, perhaps, needs, the notion that some higher level exists. I am not in any way talking about organized religion here, other than that is the most historically effective way of expressing this need since the record started being written, which also is when the abuse of that power began

I am talking more about God, or whatever you call it, being in everything and everyone at the same time - sort of like in Whitman's Song of Myself, posted here http://www.daypoems.net/poems/1900.html

Scientifically, for this to occur, it must have some provable basis. I suggest that basis can be found when one is in love. Is that euphoric sense merely an hormonal thing? Or, is that obvious orbital penumbra a hint at something else on another plane. I choose the latter.

I was in Petra at the beginning of the month (Jordan). A stunning amazing place all built in the name of god. And just across the Red Sea was Luxor and all the Egyptian sites (another god thing) and I was thinking how these places must have really inspired people and how just their creation must have promoted the belief in religion - such is their visual impact - breathtaking places.

But most of the oil industry I see is in impoverished places - Siberia, Iraq (where I am now) West Africa and all of them suffer from one sort of religious fanatacism or other - it really isn't an advert for religion!

strandinthewind · #93 08-12-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew_Matthews

. . . I'm in the Middle East now . . .

As you are there and I have been close to it, but never actually in any significant part of it, is the press to be believed when they portray the Middle East as populated by mostly religious zealots. The US often is portrayed that way, but I think any actions here other than rhetoric by Pat Robertson and the like, pales in comparison to the almost child like following of religion we are shown to occur there. Anyway, i'd love to hear your perspective as I value and hold in high regard your well reasoned and enlightening points of view, though mine may differ on occasion.

strandinthewind · #94 08-12-2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carrie721

hang on suzanne, let me pull out your favorite argument technique

ar·ro·gant (ăr'ə-gənt) pronunciation
adj.

1. Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.
2. Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others: an arrogant contempt for the weak.

i think that that level of ethnocentricity (if that's what you want to call it) clearly displays "a sense of overbearing self-worth."

i agree, but i don't think he was trying to say there is no base for her beliefs in christianity. i think he was trying to say that her beliefs weren't valid at all.

I disagree and I think he has said as much in his replies. If he meant anything different, then he is incorrect. But, I do not see his argument from his faith as arrogent in way that term is defined. I do not think he was asserting that he is self important nor do I think he was acting in a superior manner, though some obviously, and IMO incorrectly, took his post as that. I think that is not like him. Again, I think he merely was arguing from the vantage point of his faith and did not consider the statement outside of that vantage point.

Stew_Matthews · #95 08-12-2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carrie721

sad but true. i know people who couldn't even identify all the states. i'll keep your comment about leeds in mind, though, if i ever need to use it against you

Sorry - Hi to you

You want to ask BretonBanquet whether he's from Leeds - then stand well back

It's a bad thing to say to us Southerners!

strandinthewind · #96 08-12-2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew_Matthews

I was in Petra at the beginning of the month (Jordan). A stunning amazing place all built in the name of god. And just across the Red Sea was Luxor and all the Egyptian sites (another god thing) and I was thinking how these places must have really inspired people and how just their creation must have promoted the belief in religion - such is their visual impact - breathtaking places.

But most of the oil industry I see is in impoverished places - Siberia, Iraq (where I am now) West Africa and all of them suffer from one sort of religious fanatacism or other - it really isn't an advert for religion!

Wow - I am pea green with envy at the thought of going to those places. One day, but sadly, not one day soon, I will get there!

But, I agree, when I look at the religions of the poorer parts of Africa and in the Middle East, I see the iron hand of early Catholocism weilding the dealy tow the line sword. It is like watching the 1200's to the 1700's replay themselves.

Man is his worst predator

strandinthewind · #97 08-12-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew_Matthews

Sorry - Hi to you

You want to ask BretonBanquet whether he's from Leeds - then stand well back

It's a bad thing to say to us Southerners!

I thought you were a Scot

carrie721 · #98 08-12-2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I thought you were a Scot

ouuuuuuuuuuuch.

Stew_Matthews · #99 08-12-2007, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

As you are there and I have been close to it, but never actually in any significant part of it, is the press to be believed when they portray the Middle East as populated by mostly religious zealots. The US often is portrayed that way, but I think any actions here other than rhetoric by Pat Robertson and the like, pales in comparison to the almost child like following of religion we are shown to occur there. Anyway, i'd love to hear your perspective as I value and hold in high regard your well reasoned and enlightening points of view, though mine may differ on occasion.

I've only been in Baghdad a few days. It took a week to drive from Jordan. In fact the only reason I am on this PC is that I am collecting my permits to drive a car 'round the city so I'm in the US area and it has IT systems. I did spend five weeks here in May/June so I'm familiar with parts of the city.

To be honest it's pretty chilled. It's the main highway that's a bit of a worry. To get to Dura (where I am working) you have to travel the section from the airport to the south of the city. It is a bit scary. Other than that the main problem is that there is no power and no water - well about two hours a day. It is 3am and about 30 degrees C - so with no air con and no water, everyone is bound to be pissed off!

carrie721 · #**100** 08-12-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew_Matthews

Sorry - Hi to you

You want to ask BretonBanquet whether he's from Leeds - then stand well back

It's a bad thing to say to us Southerners!

okay that didn't go over well

strandinthewind · #**101** 08-12-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew_Matthews

I've only been in Baghdad a few days. It took a week to drive from Jordan. In fact the only reason I am on this PC is that I am collecting my permits to drive a car 'round the city so I'm in the US area and it has IT systems. I did spend five weeks here in May/June so I'm familiar with parts of the city.

To be honest it's pretty chilled. It's the main highway that's a bit of a worry. To get to Dura (where I am working) you have to travel the section from the airport to the south of the city. It is a bit scary. Other than that the main problem is that there is no power and no water - well about two hours a day. It is 3am and about 30 degrees C - so with no air con and no water, everyone is bound to be pissed off!

Be CAREFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And, take in as much as you can.

BlackWidow · #**102** 08-12-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew_Matthews

I was in Petra at the beginning of the month (Jordan). A stunning amazing place all built in the name of god. And just across the Red Sea was Luxor and all the Egyptian sites (another god thing) and I was thinking how these places must have really inspired people and how just their creation must have promoted the belief in religion - such is their visual impact - breathtaking places.

But most of the oil industry I see is in impoverished places - Siberia, Iraq (where I am now) West Africa and all of them suffer from one sort of religious fanatacism or other - it really isn't an advert for religion!

Honey..What the HELL are you doing in Iraq???