What are you THINKING right now?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by ELIUD

Eat. EAT. Just more of you to love. CAPICE?

I like big butts and I cannot lie.

I FINALLY can see four - six abs - DAMNITALLTOHELL

[BTFLCHLD]

Originally Posted by xdreamsunwindx

Why does it matter whether or not they're a moderator?

It matters to me because they are moderating a board. Others feel differently and reacted as they wanted to.

Niki...aka Holier-Than-Thou

[Sarah]

what kind of ghetto rigged bs is this? i want to know why people can say "****" but not "****". don't try to tell me it ain't the same thing, cuz it is. i know it. you know it. every "clean" person that the rule is intended to "protect" knows it (even if it is totally lame). and i'm not talking about how the filter detects, because i understand all that crap. it's the concept that is totally lame.

RAHHHHH. toeing the line really pisses me off. the biggest chicken in the world is the one that walks all the way up to the line and then doesn't cross it. RAHHHH. I am no chicken! I feel the need to go spell out "****" in big ass letters for all the world to see.

[madformac]

Well, I've sat and read a lot of stuff on here recently and I wasn't going to post but I changed my mind about an hour ago..

I've read most of what has gone on with a sense of distain and yet part of me thinks its pretty funny that this behaviour goes on unchecked..

This forum has a minority of anti conformists that take every opportunity to disrupt a thread or to throw some bait out to try and tempt a reaction from another member. Some of it is gang mentality and some is just down to plain old fashioned psychologcal issues (I'm waiting for the denials to come along)..

As I recently blogged, I used to love reading the various threads about the band in question. I'm an old member now, dating back to 2001, which in cyber terms is ancient, in fact I would say the average posting life on here is about 5 years. There really was (and still is) some good information and the members had such great knowledge. Sure there were arguements but most were settled in an appropriate manner. Most members enjoyed a laugh and the general feeling was a positive one. It was a good place to hang out in the virtual world and it was a pleasure to log on.

Now its rather like stepping into a war zone. It's more like Beirut or Baghdad. Its principally due to the band really... First they have a mammoth world tour which results in many new fans and members on the boards. Then they do nothing which creates unrest. From a position of distance, which is what I have today, I feel compelled to give my objective view. Its a shame its come to this. As I recently noted, its like finding one of the loves of your life is now an abusive crack whore in denial.

Unfortunately the band and its music has taken a back seat and are playing second fiddle. The boards have become both overtly crude due to too much sexual innuendo and smut from people that really should know how to behave better and if its not that its all abuse and gang culture. There can be no criticism anymore without a torrent of abuse and bile directed at the person that isn't afraid to question a thread it seems. Sadly this has become a game where various individuals with too much time on their hands for their own good scour the threads looking for their next victim like a pride of lions. Its rather pathetic and smacks of childishness and petulance.

Its certainly not an uncommon thing. It happens in daily life too. Not everybody can articulate their points without resulting to cheap shots or abuse. While its easy to remember that abusers have generally been abused themselves in some form, be it verbally, physically or sexually and rebel as a natural defense mechanism there can be no justification for it to continue without warning or moderation.

What happens judging from what I read is the crap starts in the Chit Chat section and then spills over into the main forums where you find an interesting thread is quickly hijacked into a smut laden and aggressive posting point for the usual suspects. Some of them I remember as bad apples from before but I'm surprised that others that should know better seem to have joined in. Perhaps its the gang theory, I'm not sure. If you join in you won't get victimised yourself I would suspect. Who knows? I'm not particularly impressed either way. I'm also not impressed by the way nobody seems to give a crap about the fact guests, many of which are children read this stuff. Not that anybody these days seems to consider that when they post bad language and smut on a site that was not set up for primariliy adult content. IMO Chit Chat needs to be restructured or deleted. There is too much focus on non Fleetwood Mac topics for a Fleetwood Mac board. Of late that particular forum has been shown to be the root of the problems. Take it away and you take away most of the problems.

I find it highly insulting to Marty and to Lis that these antics seem to carry on. They worked damn hard to set this place up and to be informative. Not only that, they continue to fund this place for the love of the band. What the hell do guests, media and even the band think of this crap when they come and browse?

As for the whole moderator issue. Well yes, some things were out of order but everybody is human. Mistakes get made. Thats life. Those poking sticks would do well to remember that the moderators give their own time and assistance for free to keep this place from anarchy. The Ledge has recently lost one of its most balanced and caring moderators (and before I get attacked I'm not even talking about Chris here) and I'll be surprised if others don't follow. Look at the state of this place. If I was a moderator I would seriously question if it was worth continuing. They don't get praised enough for the work they do so that you guys can all continue to interact.

Even this past week a member took their own time and money and help from a moderator to set up a quiz. They didn't have to do that. They really didn't. Yet even something with such goodwill and positive sentiment was questioned and comments were made.

I'm sorry if some individuals are having a tough life, or they have personal issues, or they never fulfilled their dreams. Life is not easy. But try and focus that energy in a positive way instead of spitting bile at others.

I'm really disheartened by the fact that good people have been driven away by the lunatic fringe. So many regulars have left. Christy and Pattie have gone now too. I don't want to read about sexual innuendos and hatred on a website intended for a rock band and unfortunately I'm not honorable enough to keep my mouth shut and move on as I was intending to do..

If the worst case scenario happened and the owners decided the forum is defunct in the nature it was intended for and was closed what will happen? All those interesting threads would be lost. The good natured people and the decent qualities of this forum would be lost. The parasitic individuals that seem to be pre-programmed for self destruction will take this place with them. It will close and they will go and infect another board. It reminds me of Ghostbusters II when a river of slime overtook NYC. Everybody became assholes becuase of the ill feeling. I see a parallel.

So what will happen now is the protagonists will go into denial or as is the case in most psychological scenarios act innocent and deny they are the accusers. Or of course play the "blame somebody else" card.

Feel free to launch your attacks.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by xdreamsunwindx

. . . And let's just say that the horse's ass manifesto was directed toward another board member, NOT a moderator. Anyone think this **** would have down? I'm just asking. I'd like to hear everyone's opinion.

It would depend if that person complained. If they did in a PM to the person posting it and that person told them to piss off, then likely the moderators would get involved.

But, I think it is important to see the whole picture, which is this goes way beyond the single event of posting the pic of the horse's a$$. This has been going on for awhile and on more than this board.

[seeker007nmss]

Is it safe yet?

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by madformac

Of late that particular forum has been shown to be the root of the problems. Take it away and you take away most of the problems.

No attack, but I do feel you're wrong on that point. Even when this place was just one huge, long forum, it was riddled with this stuff. If not more of this stuff. And fan-fic.. blech. You can't imagine the drama until you've seen the fan-fic ledgie controversies.

But seriously. Even after the board was divided by topics, OT threads made their way to the individual member boards. IMO, having a chitchat board was the best solution, because the people who are here for JUST band related stuff can cruise the topic forums with relatively little drama.

Maybe chit chat should just be renamed to The Underground, or War Zone. Enter at your own risk. It clearly states that it is for discussions not related to FM. Any time you have a forum with people becoming friends and groups of friends, you're going to have these problems. You can have them in the band boards or you can have them here. But you're going to have them somewhere. Regardless of the individual user names. This world is not a peaceful place. I don't know why we all want to get on here and act like it is.. that a group of almost 4,000 people can get along as smooth as chocolate pudding pie just based on the fandom of one band. Completely unrealistic, given that we've chosen a band as dramatic as FM in the first place.

[seeker007nmss]

I say we blow it all up and start over.

[DrummerDeanna]

^^

There has been talk of the suggestion of deleting Chit Chat. While I'm not pleased with that suggestion, it's ultimately up to Marty and Lisa. My fear is that the off topic stuff will just spill into all of the other forums to the point where you'd be hard-pressed to find actual information and conversation on whatever forum you're in.

Of course I guess that's where moderating comes in...

A lot of people have just stated that they're leaving...after a sh*t storm like this there is usually a bit of calm. I hope that if that's the case that Christy and Pattie (and YOU) and others will return as I miss their presence...

This whole situation is pretty ridiculous.

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

She said that it was a direct insult. So, I am correct in my statement.

What I meant is that the accusation of direct insult seems to be that Carrie was calling Chris a horse's ass. And I thought that's what you meant.

[seeker007nmss]

Let's all take 2 cups of cute and call it a day.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by seeker007nmss

Let's all take 2 cups of cute and call it a day.

the earless kittens aren't cute, but the bunnies are. and um. that's 4 cups.

[BTFLCHLD]

Originally Posted by madformac

Well, I've sat and read a lot of stuff on here recently and I wasn't going to post but I changed my mind about an hour ago...

I am glad you did. I appreciate your thoughtful post and find myself in agreement. I will be more mindful of what I post. Thanks

[madformac]

Originally Posted by Sarah

No attack, but I do feel you're wrong on that point. Even when this place was just one huge, long forum, it was riddled with this stuff. If not more of this stuff. And fan-fic.. blech. You can't imagine the drama until you've seen the fan-fic ledgie controversies.

Well, in over 1000 posts I've never launched an attack on an individual. Give them enough rope and they hang themselves. No need for me to do it.

Originally Posted by Sarah

But seriously. Even after the board was divided by topics, OT threads made their way to the individual member boards. IMO, having a chitchat board was the best solution, because the people who are here for JUST band related stuff can cruise the topic forums with relatively little drama.

Maybe chit chat should just be renamed to The Underground, or War Zone. Enter at your own risk. It clearly states that it is for discussions not related to FM. Any time you have a forum with people becoming friends and groups of friends, you're going to have these problems. You can have them in the band boards or you can have them here. But you're going to have them somewhere. Regardless of the individual user names. This world is not a peaceful place. I don't know why we all want to get on here and act like it is.. that a group of almost 4,000 people can get along as smooth as chocolate pudding pie just based on the fandom of one band. Completely unrealistic, given that we've chosen a band as dramatic as FM in the first place.

I would say it clearly needs to be looked at. If it was just a case of a member not browsing Chit Chat then thats fine, thats a choice. The problem comes from when personal battles and differences spill over and manifest themselves in Band topics. It happens with regularity. Maybe a solution would be to post an adult content notice for Chit Chat and any posts deviating too much from the set topics or openly hijacking threads in the other "Band" forums would be subject to deletion. It would be hard to enforce and always open to protests but the Moderators decision should be final. Like it or leave.

I'm more concerned about the casual viewer and the children browsing that don't get the "in" jokes or are offended by the language and innuendo. I'm sure there are many members here that would be horrified if their kids read some of the posts on the boards.

[seeker007nmss]

Originally Posted by Sarah

the earless kittens aren't cute, but the bunnies are. and um. that's 4 cups.

The kitties ears are down cause they don't want to hear all the fighting, and I guess that is 4 if you choose both pics.