Official UTS Review Thread

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

BTW: have I mentioned before that -imo- SUD is the best thing he ever recorded?

I find that a strange thing to say. It's a good song but his vocals are weak and strained. Doesn't even have any of his best guitar work either. I guess we all have opinions though. Then again, we all have arseholes too.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by amber

Oh. I understand the temptation to say what you said, when someone who hasn't made a billion dollars with their music talks disparagingly about someone who has - but I don't think that will necessarily make it true. Believe me, I understand well, as I have been tempted to use the "everyone loves Stevie!" argument to justify some stuff. It's been hard to employ logic with that, sometimes. But I push through, and still try. She is not immune, no matter how much I love her.

And I can't speak for others, but I do welcome musician's views, especially such seasoned ones as ChiliD. I'm not Chili's friend or Crony, heck, I almost never even talk to him - and maybe others here wouldn't be interested in what he does musically - I don't know.

But though I may disagree with Chili, I still find his opinions interesting, and do want to hear his special musician insight. That dude has been around the scene playing music since I was born, or nearly so - I love it. Though I rarely agree with him.

And maybe he is "disrespectful", I can see your point on that - but that is really what he thinks, and just because he thinks that from his perspective doesn't necessarily make his life musical experience or talent less - it just makes him not agree with "us". And I'm sure you realize not everyone will. I just don't think it is fair to judge his own music on his opinions about Linds. Who knows, Chili may suck, and he may be making excuses ( I doubt it) but until we know for sure, that seems unfair. As of now, we can only say that we think his opinion about Linds sucks. lol.

And people promote their virtues here all the time - it may seem self centered for Mr. D to draw on his own musical choices when talking about Lindsey, but as a lifelong musician, I couldn't really expect him not to draw on that experience. What else is he supposed to draw on? And he really is a musicians, all his opinions here that I've ever seen draw on that knowledge. I mean, that is WHO HE IS.

And as you pointed out, you may think he is "full of sh*t", perhaps, or doesn't have basis for his opinions and ways of doing things because he is a musician but not a "successful" one (I would argue with that, as it seems Mr. D has made a living, or at least a suppliimental living, being a musician).

I have to submit that though he may be full of sh*t, and has drawn on his own experience as a musician to illustrate his feelings about the album - that doesn't make his music or musicianship any less, or his opinions less valid, and doesn't necessarily mean he is self promoting any more than the rest of us - when people talk in their exercise threads about stuff, I sound all superior, too, because I know a lot about exercise and food - music just happens to be ChiliD's area of expertise, he knows about music - so like anyone his opinions in his area of expertise may come off stronger and more arrogant. No big.

Which, IMO, is to be expected, and doesn't at all mean anyone has to agree with him. Or even take his opinion as a seasoned musician. Not at all. I'm not sure I've ever agreed with Chili (except for TP's kick ass rendition of Oh Well)

But nevertheless that will be his perspective, because that is who he is, and where his opinion comes from.

In short version, I think anyone can think anyone else is an a-hole, or wrong, but I never really think it is disrespectful for someone to voice their opinion. Or, maybe I do, but I try to realize that I can't call someone out for their opinion, no matter how "disrespectful" I think it is. Obviously, you can tell when people come from a place of malice, without consideration of the actual work, and I don't think that is the case here.

But also, I think you can call him out, if that is your opinion. I just don't agree with the reasons you posted for your disagreement. I don't think any artist should ever be spared someone's real opinion because you are trying to be respectful. But I do think much, much, criticism about artists is wrong, wrong. Like, the critics who skewer Stevie - I know they don't know what I know, but I can only just say they are a-holes who don't know, and chalk it up to that. Calling them "disrespectful" is like coercing someone to like you when they don't, just because you are famous, or whatever. You can be talented and famous till the world ends, it doesn't still mean everyone will like you, or see that. It's a cryin' shame, but it's true.

I would never spare anyone out of pity, or trying to be respectful, because that shortchanges the artist as well as the listener. Any artist should never be immune to discussion and "criticism." Otherwise, where is the room to grow? It's not possible for any artist, or person, to be perfect all the time, is it? You, or I, might think they are perfect, but to actually expect everyone else to think they are perfect is odd and unattainable, and to label that disrespectful is tyrannical, IMO.

And god forbid, above all, please, no - that the artist themself is ever satisfied and think their work is perfect. Because that is when art dies, and parody and nostalgia take over what used to be art. And I think we all know what I mean by that. *Shudder*

It was nice to read what you said, though, haven't seen you round here. I mean that, too. Sometimes people think I am being sarcastic when I am not, is why I'm double saying that it was a pleasure to read what you thought. It really was. lol.

*Also I may have to again agree with John Run. Twice in one day! Are you gay, John Run, or can I date you? lol*

And for the record, I bet ChiliD rocks. I know so, so, so many musician/singers who are far superior to what we hear but are not famous or recognized.
I long ago, like when I was 3, and my mom sang with her guitar, stopped judging music by its monetary or public success. I'd be a fool, and miss so many great things, If I had.

Okay but for reals in short:
To question ChiliD's opinion? - AWESOME!
To question ChiliD's musicianship having never heard him? - Lower than low, unfair, petty, etc.

S'okay, happens to the best of us. Or at least me.
gar, I should probably erase the rest of that effluvium that I just wrote.

one could only hope....

[desertangel]

Well I was going to wait a few more days before posting this, but there would be no real reason. Not yet knowing if this CD had grow potential, in my original post I mentioned my feelings towards some songs could possibly change by next week. I can now safely say every cut stands on equal footing with me. In otherwords, there are no real weak points, at least none worth mentioning. I still favor some songs more than others, such as Under the Skin, Show You How and Down on Rodeo, but I think that's to be expected. This CD is mature, cohesive and grounded. As was the case with the early Fleetwood Mac catalog, I've approached Lindsey's solo work with caution because some songs don't hit me quite right in the beginning. What usually ends up happening in situations like that is the material ends up being favorite for years to come. I would imagine, as an artist, that grow potential would definitely be something worth striving for. Wonder how one achieves that in their work?

[xhector]

I received the CD yesterday, via Amazon..

This is an absolute beauty. A treasure, that will take me time to assimilate properly, but that i'm already enjoying every second of it. I see it as a BIG work, IMPORTANT in 2006, well at least for us it is. To me he’s a genious, what more I can say. His music takes me more far and more deep than any other music. I can say more superlatives, and so on. But hey I’m a fan


Oh, the two mini-criticisms i had before were completely wrong sillinesses. Now i see "It was you" is just a little fun song for his family (I imagine them singing it together and laughing and having an awesome time), and that he wants to share for our fun also. It has its space in this album. And the central photo has a meaning as well. So who will be the one to say it was no good what he done.

---
Héctor
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[xhector]

Originally Posted by desertangel

I would imagine, as an artist, that grow potential would definitely be something worth striving for. Wonder how one achieves that in their work?

Hi desertangel.
I think this can not be planned, achieved deliberately (I'm going to write a song that people dislikes at first but loves it from 12th listen). In my opinion what happens with certain songs is the following:

The author works a lot on a song, and takes it further and further. The direction of the song is changed, and then changed again. Finally, it arrives to a state where only the creator's mind is able to understand its internal logic. So, at first listens by someone outside, it just sounds weird and it's difficult to receive. Because it's not that much like similar songs he's liked in the past. With more listens, the knots are slowly undoing and the listener can approximate better to the place intended by the author.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by xhector

(I imagine them singing it together and laughing and having an awesome time), and that he wants to share for our fun also.

i've been thinking that too, xhector.

it's fun to sing along with.

[desertangel]

Originally Posted by xhector

Now i see "It was you" is just a little fun song for his family (I imagine them singing it together and laughing and having an awesome time), and that he wants to share for our fun also. It has its space in this album. And the central photo has a meaning as well. So who will be the one to say it was no good what he done.

---
Héctor
---

It Was You seems like a fun song to me too. Kind of along the lines of Not That Funny, but kinder. In fact, every time I listen to It Was You my mind wants to draw lines to John Lennon's Double Fantasy album... particularly the song Beautiful Boy and it's carribean feel.

[desertangel]

Originally Posted by xhector

Hi desertangel.
I think this can not be planned, achieved deliberately (I'm going to write a song that people dislikes at first but loves it from 12th listen). In my opinion what happens with certain songs is the following:

The author works a lot on a song, and takes it further and further. The direction of the song is changed, and then changed again. Finally, it arrives to a state where only the creator's mind is able to understand its internal logic. So, at first listens by someone outside, it just sounds weird and it's difficult to receive. Because it's not that much like similar songs he's liked in the past. With more listens, the knots are slowly undoing and the listener can approximate better to the place intended by the author.

Nicely said. I actually spent a few minutes thinking about this subject today and the way you described the process had crossed my mind. It kinda makes those songs seem more special.

[AliP]

For those who ordered the CD via ticketmaster...how long did it take for you to get your CD? I ordered the CD two weeks ago when I got tickets and still haven't received it.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

I find that a strange thing to say. It's a good song but his vocals are weak and strained. Doesn't even have any of his best guitar work either. I guess we all have opinions though. Then again, we all have arseholes too.

The fact that his vocals are strained is the beauty of it. I wouldn't call it weak, I call it vulnerable and sweet. I don't fockin' care if it has good-better-best guitarwork. It's the sweetness and vulnerability AND the fight between the pickin'lines and the vocallines that appeal to me. It's one of the strangest of the hook songs he recorded and my eyes wet everytime I hear it.

Enough reason to state that it's the best thing he ever recorded. In my humble arsehole, ofcourse.

[Carolina Girl]

Originally Posted by AliP

For those who ordered the CD via ticketmaster...how long did it take for you to get your CD? I ordered the CD two weeks ago when I got tickets and still haven't received it.

I ordered my tickets and cd on September 7, and the cd arrived on Friday, October 6. The email notification of the presale had this info:

CD Orders processed on or prior to October 3, 2006 will be shipped within 3 days of album release. CD Orders processed after October 3, 2006 will be shipped within two (2) business days of purchase date.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by CarterNix

You're right Amber. I do understand the joy of making music. I simply think that in this case, ChiliD was using it as an excuse. My post was merely a call for humility from someone who is in no place to assume that the general Fleetwood Mac fan base who use this board - (people aside from his close friends and cronies) - would have any interest whatsoever in whatever music he makes.

Further to that, it doesnt matter how long he has been a fan - he was coming across as disrespectful in a thread where people where happily comparing likes/dislikes regarding a new album that has been so long awaited.

Put simply, this is a Lindsey Buckingham messageboard - it doesn't exist for anyone else to promote their own supposed virtues.

I think you're the one who's out of line. I wasn't promoting anything of my own. I really think you need to RE-read my post that seemed to offend ONLY you. I wasn't putting Lindsey down in any way, shape or form. I wasn't promoting ME, either. I was just stating a fact...and if you'll refer back, I was answering someone's question specifically TO me.

Now, how you disrespected ME? That's a whole 'nother story.

And, this is in no way any kind of self-promotion, but I'd bet that if people DID hear my music (without KNOWING it was me, especially, so there'd be no bias), they'd like it. But, I certainly don't come here to promote MY stuff, I come here to talk about Fleetwood Mac and its members & ex-members...and some of the peripheral folks who've made a whole musical career out of their association with said folks. And, because I AM in "the Biz" I have a certain perspective that some people don't.

[desertangel]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

The fact that his vocals are strained is the beauty of it. I wouldn't call it weak, I call it vulnerable and sweet. I don't fockin' care if it has good-better-best guitarwork. It's the sweetness and vulnerability AND the fight between the pickin'lines and the vocallines that appeal to me. It's one of the strangest of the hook songs he recorded and my eyes wet everytime I hear it.

Enough reason to state that it's the best thing he ever recorded. In my humble arsehole, ofcourse.

I've been contemplating the whole strained vocals thing... then this evening I was listenting to SYW. There are some songs on there where Lindsey clearly has excellent vocals. It made me wonder if they used some post-production pitch correction that is far superior to anything I've seen, which isn't much. I dunno - I have a co-worker who is in the process of setting up a pc-based recording studio and he's getting Pro Tools, which is what everyone seems to be using. I'll check out the pitch correction on that. But I digress, I agree that the strained and weak vocals were purposeful. There have been handfuls of artists thru the ages who jumped on the strained and out of tune vocal bandwagon just so the counterculture types would say "wow.. that's really different and so therefore it's really cool" - I read a book about Hendrix that said he wrote his dad and told him not to be upset over the vocals when he hears one of his records because it's the in thing to do, to sing lousy. I honestly believe it takes more effort for a good singer to sing lousy than it does a lousy singer to sing good. I don't believe Neil Young ever stopped singing lousy... he always has, always will. Same with Dylan. So... ya, I agree. It's cool and not because I'm counterculture... because it just is. That's all.

[tuigirl]

Well....I was lucky enough to be lent UTS this past week and I have to say...I'm really struggling with it. With me, it's all about that first listen, I either love it or don't love it (any LB song) and with this whole cd, I just can't get to grips with it at all.Yes, I've tried listening to it as a whole piece, but I really have problems with those whispery vocals, the words of the songs are really interesting, but it's the overdone vocals (with all that delay and stuff) that don't do it for me.I am a Go Insane/Tusk lover at heart and I can't wait till his "other" CD comes out (thank goodness for the GOS demos...) which I hope will make up for this one.I was thinking too, I wonder if this CD appeals more to the mid-life crisis man (as opposed to woman)? I discussed this idea with my UTS lender and thought that the reviews I'd read from some of the more musically minded Ledgies were from chaps possibly asking themselves the same things (as LB is in this CD, you know about life, where they're going, what theyv'e done etc.)Maybe thats the appeal of it for some people. maybe I don't want to get there yet, or maybe I've been thru my MLC ..I don't know, but what I do know, is UTS won't be in my Xmas stocking this year (and I can't wait till the "other" one arrives!! )
On, another note briefly, I saw the Save me a place video and hear that he's doing some great songs on stage...fantastic, he looks and sounds fab.Good luck with the tour Lindsey.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by tuigirl

Well....I was lucky enough to be lent UTS this past week and I have to say...I'm really struggling with it. With me, it's all about that first listen, I either love it or don't love it (any LB song) and with this whole cd, I just can't get to grips with it at all.Yes, I've tried listening to it as a whole piece, but I really have problems with those whispery vocals, the words of the songs are really interesting, but it's the overdone vocals (with all that delay and stuff) that don't do it for me.I am a Go Insane/Tusk lover at heart and I can't wait till his "other" CD comes out (thank goodness for the GOS demos...) which I hope will make up for this one.I was thinking too, I wonder if this CD appeals more to the mid-life crisis man (as opposed to woman)? I discussed this idea with my UTS lender and thought that the reviews I'd read from some of the more musically minded Ledgies were from chaps possibly asking themselves the same things (as LB is in this CD, you know about life, where they're going, what theyv'e done etc.)Maybe thats the appeal of it for some people. maybe I don't want to get there yet, or maybe I've been thru my MLC ..I don't know, but what I do know, is UTS won't be in my Xmas stocking this year (and I can't wait till the "other" one arrives!! )
On, another note briefly, I saw the Save me a place video and hear that he's doing some great songs on stage...fantastic, he looks and sounds fab.Good luck with the tour Lindsey.

Well, maybe you're right. I'm 41 and at first listen I was totally struck by the whole feel of the album. Maybe it has something to do with MLC, although I tend to think I'm still very far away from that. I mean he's 57! For cryin' out loud. But the whole hunger for reflection is something I can relate to, so maybe that's part of the attraction of UTS for me.