My Anti-Stevie Customer

[foxyluva]

Originally Posted by paleshadow

"Sorry" is definately not rude.

They said "sorry" about my taste in music - not for dogging on Stevie.

We all have heard your opinion and know you would have acted differently - just let it go

[paleshadow]

Originally Posted by foxyluva

They said "sorry" about my taste in music - not for dogging on Stevie.

We all have heard your opinion and know you would have acted differently - just let it go

I was replying to someone else, not just randomly repeating myself. Please don't tell me what to do.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by paleshadow

I don't think it would be ****ty to go to a record store and say make negative comments about the music that was playing to someone I'm with. Why is my conversation anyone elses business? Furthermore, it's a record store and it's not the customers responsibility to reserve judgement of a paticular type of music, but it should be the employees responsability to put their personal opinions of what is good and what isn't aside (while at work, or unless specifically asked) in order to be professional and because they are selling to a wide range of musical tastes.

But of course!

I'm just talking about being aware of yourself, if you're (not you personally!) enough of a bigmouth to ****-talk the music being played within earshot of the employees then I guess you run the risk of offending the person that played it and/or hurting their feelings. It's just that simple. Of course you (again not you personally) have the right to say whatever you want to whomever you want, in any situation you want, but that doesn't make what you say alright just on that principal alone. You can't just say, well, I have the right to say anything I want and damn the consequences! I guess if one can be ****ty and have a clear conscience then onward with it, but that doesn't erase the ****tiness of it, ya know? It's just that people tend not to think before they speak, actually, people tend not to think at all and so the cycle of ****tiness just keeps going and going and going and going....

If someone say, posted a thread on the The Ledge gushing about a band they liked and I happened to hate that band, should I speak up and talk about how much I hate that band and question how anyone could possibly like them, and go on about how they SUCK? Would that be okay? Of course I'm well within "my rights" to do so given the 1st ammendment and all, but am I not responsible for the consequences of that action? Is it really "right" for me to do so, and couldn't I just spare the feelings of the person that started the thread by not posting my ****ty comments? It's one thing to just say, "I don't like that" or, "it's not my cup of tea" when discussing music,etc. you don't like with people, it's another thing to be condescending and rude, with the only intent being to disparage someone's tastes while elevating your own as if to say, "I'm better than you, or, I have better taste in____" than you do, so sucks to you! I don't like it, and I would bet that you don't either. Anyway, that's how I see foxy's story as having played out, those customer's were trying to be rude and obnoxious by ****ting on his/her music tastes and I think that's just plain mean! I won't have it dammit, I won't have it!

[paleshadow]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

If someone say, posted a thread on the The Ledge gushing about a band they liked and I happened to hate that band, should I speak up and talk about how much I hate that band and question how anyone could possibly like them, and go on about how they SUCK? Would that be okay? Of course I'm well within "my rights" to do so given the 1st ammendment and all, but am I not responsible for the consequences of that action? Is it really "right" for me to do so, and couldn't I just spare the feelings of the person that started the thread by not posting my ****ty comments? It's one thing to just say, "I don't like that" or, "it's not my cup of tea" when discussing music,etc. you don't like with people, it's another thing to be condescending and rude, with the only intent being to disparage someone's tastes while elevating your own as if to say, "I'm better than you, or, I have better taste in____" than you do, so sucks to you! I don't like it, and I would bet that you don't either. Anyway, that's how I see foxy's story as having played out, those customer's were trying to be rude and obnoxious by ****ting on his/her music tastes and I think that's just plain mean! I won't have it dammit, I won't have it!

Hi. Well, I'm glad you brought that up. Many threads have knocked other artists here. Say for example I was a Lindsey Lohan fan, and I came here because I wanted to talk about Lindsey covering "Edge of Seventeen" and then saw all the nasty things people were saying about not only the song, but about her personally? Wouldn't that be hurtful? Sure, the cenario is different because this is a Stevie Nicks forum, and not a Lindsey Lohan one, as a record store is a forum for many musical artists, and not just Stevie.
I have to say though, I have re-read fox's original post and like I've said before I understand perception is different for everyone. I do not see anything offensive about the incident though. I mean, a private conversation which is overheard. Do you think that if you were with your mother or friend and walked into a store and music you hate is playing you wouldn't make a comment or go "Bleh, I hate this crap". Secondly, they asked fox "Don't you get sick of listening to this?" at which point they first find out that Fox is a Stevie fan because Fox tells them. then they say "Oh, Sorry" which Fox hears as being condicending. Then Fox, already knowing they dislike Stevie asks, "Why, what's wrong with it" and get's upset when they tell him what they think is wrong with it and does this:

"(nobody calls Stevie crap in my presence!) so I went off on this Stevie ramage - totally cussing this girl out with Stevie/FM knowledge & how influential they are and what the hell had Mudvayne ever done for the betterment of music"

At which point the mother and daughter say "Don't worry about the CD" and leave.
They did not respond with a "f-off" or "screw you and your CD" They said "Don't worry about the cd" and left.

So, if we forget about the overheard conversation which wasn't intended for anyones ears except the mother and daughter, that leaves us with the "Oh Sorry" being what was rude. I would ask, whether it was intended sincerely or not, why should an appology be expected at all for someone expressing their opinion?

Fox's moral of the story
"The moral of the story is:
'Don't mess with Stevie or I will verbally destroy you.'"

Now, who was rude again?

[Sahara]

Originally Posted by paleshadow

Say for example I was a Lindsey Lohan fan, and I came here because I wanted to talk about Lindsey covering "Edge of Seventeen" and then saw all the nasty things people were saying about not only the song, but about her personally? Wouldn't that be hurtful?

Hmm. Woops. Guilty as charged.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by paleshadow

I mean, a private conversation which is overheard.

Of course it's "noone's fault" if you overhear something in private conversation that you take offense to, as long as it wasn't DIRECTED at you, or blatantly announced as if you don't care who hears about your poor musical taste . A private conversation is one that usually cannot be overheard, or is hard to overhear. For instance, if I was trying to have a private conversation that I didn't want overheard, I would probably speak softly to the person I was with so as not to air my pompous opinions for the whole store to hear.

Do you think that if you were with your mother or friend and walked into a store and music you hate is playing you wouldn't make a comment or go "Bleh, I hate this crap".

Probably, but not to the employee working there, and I'd try not to say it within earshot of the employee because they may be the one who played the music, and I guess I'm just highly sensitive about these things because I know how much I hate it when my favorite band is **** on by people with no regard.

Secondly, they asked fox "Don't you get sick of listening to this?" at which point they first find out that Fox is a Stevie fan because Fox tells them. then they say "Oh, Sorry" which Fox hears as being condicending. Then Fox, already knowing they dislike Stevie asks, "Why, what's wrong with it"

Which I wouldn't have done, but apparently Fox got caught up on the moment. Anyway, they were the **** starters, I mean who would ask that? "Don't you get tired of hearing this?" Again, don't they care that they could possibly be offending the person who played it? Don't they care that they're being ****ty unnecessarily? It doesn't matter when they found out that Fox was a Stevie fan, it doesn't matter if they ever found out that information, the point is, they were loud, pompous windbags that if they had taken a moment to think, would have figured that the employee in front of them just might have played the music they were about to **** on, and therefore it might be a good idea to just keep their comments to themselves. But no, people don't think about that kind of stuff, and then actually have the nerve to defend their bad behavior by saying stuff like, well, if they can't take it too bad for them, they should just grow a thicker skin. What's fair about that?

[paleshadow]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

It doesn't matter when they found out that Fox was a Stevie fan, it doesn't matter if they ever found out that information, the point is, they were loud, pompous windbags that if they had taken a moment to think, would have figured that the employee in front of them just might have played the music they were about to **** on, and therefore it might be a good idea to just keep their comments to themselves. But no, people don't think about that kind of stuff, and then actually have the nerve to defend their bad behavior by saying stuff like, well, if they can't take it too bad for them, they should just grow a thicker skin. What's fair about that?

OK, now they are loud pompus windbags, and that wasn't even in Fox's original post. By tomorrow they are going to be Bush supporting child molesters. My point is that if it were someone that Fox disliked as well their behaivor wouldn't have been rude? Right? So that's the mentality? In this paticular situation I think the responsability lies with the person who chose to work in a situation where it would be more than likely that they would be exposed to people who could potentially like a different type of music. So if I was with a good friend of mine at a clothing store and they held up a shirt and said "What do you think"? And I said "I think that's the ugliest shirt I have ever laid eyes on" and it just so happens the cashier bought that shirt the day before, I would be a pompus windbag? And it would be considered acceptable for the cashier to "verbally assault" me as to why the shirt was the greatest shirt ever? Come on now? How is that rational? It's not, and it's the deep devotion to Stevie that sometimes makes people irrational. Maybe there's nothing wrong with that, except not recognizing it.

[Rickypt]

Foxyluva, I'm late to this thread but wanted to say that I think you were right to have that reaction. To me, the issue isn't that they didn't like Stevie, it is that they continued to bash the music after you said she's one of your favorites. Why couldn't they just shut up at that point, or say "I guess we disagree". It was also rude of them to make an assumption that you didn't like the music in the first place. It's none of their frickin' business and sounds like you were just trying to be a helpful salesperson.

It's just part of the culture of meanness that permeates every inch of society these days, egged on by "reality" shows that entertain us by showing people at their worst behavior.

[foxyluva]

Originally Posted by paleshadow

OK, now they are loud pompus windbags, and that wasn't even in Fox's original post. By tomorrow they are going to be Bush supporting child molesters. My point is that if it were someone that Fox disliked as well their behaivor wouldn't have been rude? Right? So that's the mentality? In this paticular situation I think the responsability lies with the person who chose to work in a situation where it would be more than likely that they would be exposed to people who could potentially like a different type of music. So if I was with a good friend of mine at a clothing store and they held up a shirt and said "What do you think"? And I said "I think that's the ugliest shirt I have ever laid eyes on" and it just so happens the cashier bought that shirt the day before, I would be a pompus windbag? And it would be considered acceptable for the cashier to "verbally assault" me as to why the shirt was the greatest shirt ever? Come on now? How is that rational? It's not, and it's the deep devotion to Stevie that sometimes makes people irrational. Maybe there's nothing wrong with that, except not recognizing it.

I know post was not directed at me - but this is getting ridiculous.

Im sorry, but Stevie Nicks isn't just some shirt to me - Stevie's music had helped me through some of the toughest times of my life, and alot of times is the only thing I can depend on - so when somebody makes a rude remark which is well out of order - I am going to say something about it

Personally I found them rude - and like I say, I know many people who do not care for Stevie or her music, but when somebody makes me feel bad for liking an artist that has helped me so much - I am going to say something.

Thank you Ricky

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by paleshadow

So if I was with a good friend of mine at a clothing store and they held up a shirt and said "What do you think"? And I said "I think that's the ugliest shirt I have ever laid eyes on" and it just so happens the cashier bought that shirt the day before, I would be a pompus windbag? And it would be considered acceptable for the cashier to "verbally assault" me as to why the shirt was the greatest shirt ever?

Of course not, and I never said that. In fact, I said that I wouldn't do that. I guess you're missing my point...the one about not being rude and saying ****ty things without thinking? And you're remark about "maybe he/she shouldn't work in an environment where his/her feelings may get hurt, etc," again, you're placing the burden on the person who was offended not the offendee, I don't get THIS logic. Why is all this Fox's fault? Why do you feel like those people were not responsible for their actions? Because they were. It seems, and I could be wrong, that you don't feel like what you say affects people, as if words are really just that, merely utterances that flutter up into the ether without ever touching anyone or making any impact in any way. I don't feel this way. I feel like words have a very profound effect on people, and can instigate and motivate all kinds of feelings and actions be they good or bad. Language is powerful stuff, man. Of course the instance you gave about the ugly shirt and the store clerk isn't really that dire in the grand scheme of things, I'm sure we can all agree on that. But it's this principal you seem to be upholding that people can just espouse whatever they feel like without taking responsibility for the consequences of such utterances that has me puzzled and a bit taken aback .

[paleshadow]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

Of course not, and I never said that. In fact, I said that I wouldn't do that. I guess you're missing my point...the one about not being rude and saying ****ty things without thinking? And you're remark about "maybe he/she shouldn't work in an environment where his/her feelings may get hurt, etc," again, you're placing the burden on the person who was offended not the offendee, I don't get THIS logic. Why is all this Fox's fault? Why do you feel like those people were not responsible for their actions? Because they were. It seems, and I could be wrong, that you don't feel like what you say affects people, as if words are really just that, merely utterances that flutter up into the ether without ever touching anyone or making any impact in any way. I don't feel this way. I feel like words have a very profound effect on people, and can instigate and motivate all kinds of feelings and actions be they good or bad. Language is powerful stuff, man. Of course the instance you gave about the ugly shirt and the store clerk isn't really that dire in the grand scheme of things, I'm sure we can all agree on that. But it's this principal you seem to be upholding that people can just espouse whatever they feel like without taking responsibility for the consequences of such utterances that has me puzzled and a bit taken aback .

I didn't say Fox shouldn't work at a record store. I said that people who put themselves in situations where they are going to be sensative about someone else not liking the same things they like are the ones who then bear the consiquences. If I was a vegetarian, I don't think I would work in a steak house restaurant. Again, people here aren't objective because it's Stevie we are talking about, so you can say the shirt argument isn't dire because it isn't Steive. That's my point, if we move this debate outside of the Stevie universe it has a different outcome, and why should that be? Why would logic be suspended because it involves Stevie Nicks? I'm saying that a mountain was made out of a mole hill. I am not villainizing Fox for how he felt, everyone is intitled to their feelings and I'm sorry his/hers were hurt, but I am saying it isn't fair or rational to villainize the two people who inadvertantly pissed Fox off by having an opinion that conflicted with his/hers, and clearly many people here.

[foxyluva]

I am going to repeat my post for I feel it went unnoticed:

-----------
I know post was not directed at me - but this is getting ridiculous.

Im sorry, but Stevie Nicks isn't just some shirt to me - Stevie's music had helped me through some of the toughest times of my life, and alot of times is the only thing I can depend on - so when somebody makes a rude remark which is well out of order - I am going to say something about it

Personally I found them rude - and like I say, I know many people who do not care for Stevie or her music, but when somebody makes me feel bad for liking an artist that has helped me so much - I am going to say something.

[paleshadow]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

Foxyluva, I'm late to this thread but wanted to say that I think you were right to have that reaction. To me, the issue isn't that they didn't like Stevie, it is that they continued to bash the music after you said she's one of your favorites. Why couldn't they just shut up at that point, or say "I guess we disagree". It was also rude of them to make an assumption that you didn't like the music in the first place. It's none of their frickin' business and sounds like you were just trying to be a helpful salesperson.

It's just part of the culture of meanness that permeates every inch of society these days, egged on by "reality" shows that entertain us by showing people at their worst behavior.

So everyone who has a different opinion about something, and happen to tell you about it are mean? When the customers asked if Fox got sick of the music and he told them it was his choice after they said "Oh, sorry" Fox asked "why, what's wrong with it" and then they said what they thought was wrong with it. Fox could have done the same thing and said "I guess we dissagree" since it was already clear they didn't care for the music.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by paleshadow

So everyone who has a different opinion about something, and happen to tell you about it are mean?

Yeah, that's what everyone is saying . Of course not! The point is, don't be rude unnecessarily, it's that simple. It's possible to be critical of something without being mean, unfortunately, a lot of people don't take the time or care to practice this when they disagree with someone. You're such a hold out! Why can't you admit that those people were rude? Why is that so hard?

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by paleshadow

it isn't fair or rational to villainize the two people who inadvertantly pissed Fox off by having an opinion that conflicted with his/hers, and clearly many people here.

It isn't fair to defend their piss-poor behavior either.

And it isn't the fact that they didn't agree with Fox, it's the manner with which they did it that chaps my ass. A little common courtesy goes a long way.