Cheney accidentally shoots fellow hunter

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Why? Because he was hunting without the proper credentials and he shot and killed somebody. That's why.

The non proper credentials is a red herring. It happens all the time and most know that. But, time will tell

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

The non proper credentials is a red herring. It happens all the time and most know that. But, time will tell

I heard this morning that was a new regulation and Cheney promptly sent the $7 to the authorities to get that up to date. There was some special quail addendum to his license that he needed but didn't have.

[David]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

I mean, Cheney turned and fired. Shouldn't you turn, look, and then fire?

Stop, drop & roll ... if there's a fire.
...is all I know

[Rickypt]

Here's an interesting update:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_4180718.htm

WASHINGTON, Feb. 14 (Xinhuanet) -- Texas lawyer Harry Whittington, shot accidentally by U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney during a hunting trip last Saturday, suffered a minor heart attack Tuesday and was moved back to intensive care.

Whittington, 78, had some birdshot lodged in his heart and was moved to intensive care after suffering a minor heart attack, said reports from Corpus Christi, Texas, where he was receiving treatment.

"Some of the birdshot appears to have moved and lodged into part of his heart in what we would say is a minor heart attack," Peter Banko, administrator at Christus Spohn Hospital Corpus Christi-Memorial in Texas, said at a press conference outside the hospital.

There was an irregularity in the heartbeat caused by a pellet, and doctors performed a cardiac catheterization, Banko said.

Whittington, who had been placed in intensive care after the incident and was moved from intensive care on Monday, would have to stay in the hospital for several days to monitor his condition, he said.

Banko said doctors had no plans at the moment to remove the birdshot in Whittington's heart.

Meanwhile, the Kenedy County Sheriff's Office near the ranch where the accident took place has cleared Cheney of any wrongdoing in the shooting accident.

The sheriff's office said it interviewed both men after the Secret Service called to notify them shortly after the shooting, and investigation revealed that there was no alcohol or misconduct involved in the incident, which "was no more than a hunting accident." Enditem

[DavidMn]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

Here's an interesting update:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_4180718.htm

WASHINGTON, Feb. 14 (Xinhuanet) -- Texas lawyer Harry Whittington, shot accidentally by U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney during a hunting trip last Saturday, suffered a minor heart attack Tuesday and was moved back to intensive care.

Whittington, 78, had some birdshot lodged in his heart and was moved to intensive care after suffering a minor heart attack, said reports from Corpus Christi, Texas, where he was receiving treatment.

"Some of the birdshot appears to have moved and lodged into part of his heart in what we would say is a minor heart attack," Peter Banko, administrator at Christus Spohn Hospital Corpus Christi-Memorial in Texas, said at a press conference outside the hospital.

There was an irregularity in the heartbeat caused by a pellet, and doctors performed a cardiac catheterization, Banko said.

Whittington, who had been placed in intensive care after the incident and was moved from intensive care on Monday, would have to stay in the hospital for several days to monitor his condition, he said.

Banko said doctors had no plans at the moment to remove the birdshot in Whittington's heart.

Meanwhile, the Kenedy County Sheriff's Office near the ranch where the accident took place has cleared Cheney of any wrongdoing in the shooting accident.

The sheriff's office said it interviewed both men after the Secret Service called to notify them shortly after the shooting, and investigation revealed that there was no alcohol or misconduct involved in the incident, which "was no more than a hunting accident." Enditem

I saw this too. What will happen if this guy dies? It's pretty obvious that Cheney didnt wanna kill him, but the fallout would be big I think.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

The non proper credentials is a red herring. It happens all the time and most know that.

Just because it does happen all the time doesn't mean it should. If it really happens that frequently, then the government needs to rethink the safety isuues involved in hunting.
Shooting someone while hunting should be a criminal offense in the same vein as vehicular manslaughter.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Just because it does happen all the time doesn't mean it should. If it really happens that frequently, then the government needs to rethink the safety isuues involved in hunting.
Shooting someone while hunting should be a criminal offense in the same vein as vehicular manslaughter.

The stamp has nothing to do with safety. You just pay the money and get it. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publicat...hunt/licenses/ Also, I am sure he has had many other hunting licenses, so any safety issues brought up by that, lwhich I again submit are nonexistent, would have been covered by those and this new stamp was just a money maker for the state.

Also, if you hit someone in a car and it is a complete accident, you do not go to jail to wit:

http://dictionary.law.com/definition...d=%7C%7C%7C%7C

which says (emphasis supplied) -

vehicular manslaughter

n. the crime of causing the death of a human being due to illegal driving of an automobile, including gross negligence, drunk driving, reckless driving or speeding. Vehicular manslaughter can be charged as a misdemeanor (minor crime with a maximum punishment of a year in county jail or only a fine) or a felony (punishable by a term in state prison) depending on the circumstances. Gross negligence or driving a few miles over the speed limit might be charged as a misdemeanor, but drunk driving resulting in a fatality is most likely treated as a felony. Death of a passenger, including a loved one or friend, can be vehicular manslaughter if due to illegal driving.
See also: gross negligence manslaughter reckless driving

In Cheney's case, all evidence suggests it was an accident and the guy who got shot was the more reckless one for not announcing himself. Also, the guy will likely not press charges anyway and rightly so here because it was an accident.

In the end, I despise Cheney, but this is not that big of a deal when compared to the intentional killing of thousands of innocent Iraqi's for no good reason. Now THAT is a crime.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

The stamp has nothing to do with safety. You just pay the money and get it. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publicat...hunt/licenses/ Also, I am sure he has had many other hunting licenses, so any safety issues brought up by that, lwhich I again submit are nonexistent, would have been covered by those and this new stamp was just a money maker for the state.

Also, if you hit someone in a car and it is a complete accident, you do not go to jail to wit:

http://dictionary.law.com/definition...d=%7C%7C%7C%7C

which says (emphasis supplied) - (MY emphasis in RED)

vehicular manslaughter

n. the crime of causing the death of a human being due to illegal driving of an automobile, including gross negligence, drunk driving, reckless driving or speeding. Vehicular manslaughter can be charged as a misdemeanor (minor crime with a maximum punishment of a year in county jail or only a fine) or a felony (punishable by a term in state prison) depending on the circumstances. Gross negligence or driving a few miles over the speed limit might be charged as a misdemeanor, but drunk driving resulting in a fatality is most likely treated as a felony. Death of a passenger, including a loved one or friend, can be vehicular manslaughter if due to illegal driving.
See also: gross negligence manslaughter reckless driving

In Cheney's case, all evidence suggests it was an accident and the guy who got shot was the more reckless one for not announcing himself. Also, the guy will likely not press charges anyway and rightly so here because it was an accident.

In the end, I despise Cheney, but this is not that big of a deal when compared to the intentional killing of thousands of innocent Iraqi's for no good reason. Now THAT is a crime.

Jason: do you even READ your stuff before you post it? you CAN go to jail for vehicular manslaughter: by your own definition, a misdemeanor crime can get you up to a year, for a felony, a year or more. Ultimately the Judge decides the sentence, so for you to make a blanket statement like that is a bit surprising to say the least.

I think the reason people are so outraged is because Cheney has made NO statement on his own behalf. And he IS causing friction in the White House with his mulish stance (Im not running for President) His cavalier attitude about this incident is typical of his attitude about EVERY travesty this administration has committed....

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Jason: do you even READ your stuff before you post it? you CAN go to jail for vehicular manslaughter: by your own definition, a misdemeanor crime can get you up to a year, for a felony, a year or more. Ultimately the Judge decides the sentence, so for you to make a blanket statement like that is a bit surprising to say the least.

I think the reason people are so outraged is because Cheney has made NO statement on his own behalf. And he IS causing friction in the White House with his mulish stance (Im not running for President) His cavalier attitude about this incident is typical of his attitude about EVERY travesty this administration has committed....

That def. indicates the injury must be "due to illegal driving of an automobile, including gross negligence, drunk driving, reckless driving or speeding" which require intent or implied intent, which is not evident in Cheney's case. If so, where was it?

Again, I despise Cheney and think he is an a$$ - but the facts as we know them indicate this was an accident.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

That def. indicates the injury must be "due to illegal driving of an automobile, including gross negligence, drunk driving, reckless driving or speeding" which require intent or implied intent, which is not evident in Cheney's case. If so, where was it?

Again, I despise Cheney and think he is an a$$ - but the facts as we know them indicate this was an accident.

I think a case could be made for negligence/reckless behavior, especially if you remember Cheney is considered an experienced hunter....

just so you know, I havent formed an opinion about this incident, so Im not arguing against your position per se, only the technicality of your definition, and I think parts of your definition could apply to this incident if properly presented.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I think a case could be made for negligence/reckless behavior, especially if you remember Cheney is considered an experienced hunter....

just so you know, I havent formed an opinion about this incident, so Im not arguing against your position per se, only the technicality of your definition, and I think parts of your definition could apply to this incident if properly presented.

Well, we would need to know the law in Texas. But, from a practicle point, how could the case be made when the injured party will willingly admit fault for walking unannounced into a shooting area and will not press charges I think people are letting their dislike of Cheney, which I share, cloud this issue. In other words, Cheney is a jerk, so he is guilty of more than an accident. In the end, this was an accident mostly caused by the victim and people just ordinarily do not go to jail for that.

On edit - the facts indicate Cheney did not act recklessly. He was hunting in a normal manner Maybe Texas law implies the intent in such cases a la a drunk driver usually is presumed to have the intent to hurt by the sheer fact that they are driving drunk and even though the accident that occured had nothing to do with them being drunk, but I would be surprised by that.

[strandinthewind]

Cheney to break silence on shooting accident
First public comments since Saturday's incident

CORPUS CHRISTI, Texas (Reuters) -- Vice President Dick Cheney, publicly silent since accidentally shooting a Texas lawyer while hunting last week, will offer his first words on the incident Wednesday, the White House said.

Cheney will be interviewed by Fox News at 2 p.m. ET, White House press secretary Scott McClellan told reporters.

The announcement occurred after Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, and California Rep. Nancy Pelosi, the top-ranking Democrat in the House, emerged from a White House breakfast meeting with President Bush and Cheney to say the vice president needed to come forward.

"I guess I'm kind of old-fashioned," Reid said. "He hasn't had a press conference in three and a half years."

Said Pelosi: "Open government demands that the vice president come clean with what happened ... There's probably a very simple answer to it, but we have to break this habit of the administration, of closed government without the openness that is healthy to a democracy."

They said they did not tell Cheney to his face that he should come forward and that the vice president said little during the breakfast.

Cheney sprayed Harry Whittington, 78, with birdshot while hunting quail in Texas Saturday, but has stayed silent on it except for brief statements from his office.

Whittington suffered a minor heart attack Tuesday when some of the birdshot migrated to his heart. He was rushed into intensive care at Christus Spohn Hospital, where he has been treated since the shooting, and remained there Wednesday in stable condition, hospital spokeswoman Yvonne Wheeler said. (Watch what alerted doctors to the birdshot in Whittington's heart -- 2:32)

In a break from usual White House protocol, the shooting was not revealed until Sunday when ranch owner Katharine Armstrong reported it to the Corpus Christi Caller-Times.

The failure to disclose the accident touched off a political furor as the press complained that the White House had tried to hide the incident and Democrats charged it showed the secretiveness of the Bush administration.

A number of Bush's fellow Republicans have been urging Cheney to come forward as well. The vice president's press office had no comment on whether he would make a statement, but top White House aides were believed to be discussing whether he should do so.

"I think Cheney operates in his own world and really doesn't care what the press and the public think about him because he's serving the president. But in this case, this strategy is beginning to damage the president," said a prominent Republican in Washington, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Cheney's office issued a statement Tuesday saying the vice president had spoken with Whittington by telephone, wished him well and asked if he needed anything.

Cheney is scheduled to speak Friday in his home state of Wyoming to the state legislature's 2006 budget session in Cheyenne.

Whittington, a Republican stalwart and lawyer in Texas, was struck by up to 200 pellets when Cheney, hunting on a south Texas ranch, reportedly whirled around to fire at a covey of quail and hit Whittington instead.

Whittington's health could determine whether the shooting has any real repercussions.

His doctors have been optimistic about his recovery, but said he must stay in hospital another week to make sure more birdshot does not migrate to a dangerous place.

They said it was unlikely they would try to remove the pellets because surgery, particularly if it involved the heart, could be more dangerous than leaving the pellets in.

So far, local authorities have said the shooting was simply an accident with no misconduct involved.

But if Whittington were to die, local district attorney Carlos Valdez said there could be a more-thorough investigation, including possibly a grand jury probe that might end up issuing criminal charges such as negligence or reckless behavior.


Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/...eut/index.html (emphasis supplied)

Hmmmmmmm - the plot thickens.

[strandinthewind]

Has this fact been relesed before:

reportedly whirled around to fire at a covey of quail and hit Whittington instead.

I was under the impression the guy was in the periphery and the birdshot got him there. This "new" fact thickens the soup.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, we would need to know the law in Texas. But, from a practicle point, how could the case be made when the injured party will willingly admit fault for walking unannounced into a shooting area and will not press charges I think people are letting their dislike of Cheney, which I share, cloud this issue. In other words, Cheney is a jerk, so he is guilty of more than an accident. In the end, this was an accident mostly caused by the victim and people just ordinarily do not go to jail for that.

On edit - the facts indicate Cheney did not act recklessly. He was hunting in a normal manner Maybe Texas law implies the intent in such cases a la a drunk driver usually is presumed to have the intent to hurt by the sheer fact that they are driving drunk and even though the accident that occured had nothing to do with them being drunk, but I would be surprised by that.

Well, if the injured party admits to his part in the accident, that would lessen the penalty I would think but it doesnt absolve Cheney of his responsibility to act with care. I mean after all, we ARE talking about guns here.

I dont like Cheney, Ive never denied that, but I truly havent formed an opinion here, only pointing out possible arguments..

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Has this fact been relesed before:

reportedly whirled around to fire at a covey of quail and hit Whittington instead.

I was under the impression the guy was in the periphery and the birdshot got him there. This "new" fact thickens the soup.

yes, that was already known.
The weird thing is, it sounds like Cheney had a knee jerk reaction and didnt take time to aim??? Out of curiosity, what do you mean it "thickens the soup?"