Sen. Kerry calls for filibuster of Alito

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by dissention

Of course I'd rather see Kerry. That goes without saying. But I want people to look at the current Democratic party and tell me with a straight face that they're upholding liberal views, principles, and issues. They are not. It's disingenuous to even say anything along the lines of "condemning Democrats to oblivion because they are not as stringent on each and every issue as you would like for them to be seems counter-productive" because the simple fact is that it's not a few things here and there that they're aren't stringent on, it's 99 percent of things. Everything that Bush has done while in office has been done with approval and complicity from the Democrats. To say otherwise is idiotic. So, my question is why people still support that party so ferociously when they simply have no ground to stand on.

Look, I'm not ferociously defending anyone, however, I am very much in support of Democracy and I will hold out hope that everyone else out there is too. We are a 2 party system, as wonderful as it would be to be a multi-party system, it is still a pie in the sky dream that ain't gonna come to fruition any time soon. So we gotta work with what we got right? I believe it is not practical and/or pragmatic to vote for unviable candidates (especially in these troublesome times) when we need to get actual work done out there, in other words as beautiful a principal as "voting your conscious is" it is not helping the current situation in this country, it is only making it worse. See, principals are nothing if they don't get work done and I don't see parties like the Green party actually doing anything that is making a dent in the actual state of affairs or political climate in this country. And furthermore, if people continue to be swayed by the rhetoric that the Democratic party is just another Republican party in sheep's clothing then it will only serve to further polarize the country causing an even bigger rift for Dems who ARE trying to make a difference. Yes, the Democratic party is weak right now, but let's not give up on it, we need to work to make it stronger (I know that sounds cheesy but bear with me please)

[amber]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

Look, I'm not ferociously defending anyone, however, I am very much in support of Democracy and I will hold out hope that everyone else out there is too. We are a 2 party system, as wonderful as it would be to be a multi-party system, it is still a pie in the sky dream that ain't gonna come to fruition any time soon. So we gotta work with what we got right? I believe it is not practical and/or pragmatic to vote for unviable candidates (especially in these troublesome times) when we need to get actual work done out there, in other words as beautiful a principal as "voting your conscious is" it is not helping the current situation in this country, it is only making it worse. See, principals are nothing if they don't get work done and I don't see parties like the Green party actually doing anything that is making a dent in the actual state of affairs or political climate in this country. And furthermore, if people continue to be swayed by the rhetoric that the Democratic party is just another Republican party in sheep's clothing then it will only serve to further polarize the country causing an even bigger rift for Dems who ARE trying to make a difference. Yes, the Democratic party is weak right now, but let's not give up on it, we need to work to make it stronger (I know that sounds cheesy but bear with me please)

Green doesn't make a dent exactly because of people who have the mindset that Green doesn't make a dent, and therefore won't switch to Green. Also, it's not "rhetoric" that Dems are just repubs dressed up in sheeps clothing. Besides a few exceptions (and I mean a few) it's the truth. Both Dems and Pubs work for big money, the Dems just try to pretend they don't. (again, with a few exceptions) Even Boxer didn't vote against the Patriot Act, or the war, and she didn't say anything when Clinton used military force in Bosnia, nor has she spoken up about wire tapping. Those are just examples of Dem being lame, and supposedly one of our best Dems, too.

I think the losingest fight is not the Green's agenda, the losingest fight is thinking Democrats can be "turned around" or somehow swayed into being more liberal. That's the biggest farce of all. The Dems aren't "doing anything that is making a dent in the actual state of affairs or political climate in this country" either, and if you think they are, you're being fooled.

[gldstwmn]

Please call the senators and let them know if you want them to support the filibuster:

http://democrats.com/alito-48

Toll free number to the senate switchboard: 1 888 355 3588

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Please call the senators and let them know if you want them to support the filibuster:

http://democrats.com/alito-48

Toll free number to the senate switchboard: 1 888 355 3588

Speaking of getting work done, thanks for posting this gldstwmn.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by amber

Green doesn't make a dent exactly because of people who have the mindset that Green doesn't make a dent, and therefore won't switch to Green. Also, it's not "rhetoric" that Dems are just repubs dressed up in sheeps clothing. Besides a few exceptions (and I mean a few) it's the truth. Both Dems and Pubs work for big money, the Dems just try to pretend they don't. (again, with a few exceptions) Even Boxer didn't vote against the Patriot Act, or the war, and she didn't say anything when Clinton used military force in Bosnia.
I think the losingest fight is not the Green's agenda, the losingest fight is thinking Democrats can be "turned around" or somehow swayed into being more liberal. That's the biggest farce of all. The Dems aren't "doing anything that is making a dent in the actual state of affairs or political climate in this country" either, and if you think they are, you're being fooled.

I try to have hope for a party that actually has a chance of getting candidates in office. If you think the Green Party can ever capture most of America's support (enough to make a difference mind you) then you're the one who is being fooled. And I have nothing against them, in fact, I agree with a lot of what they have to say. It's just that the majority of Americans are not going to fall in line with the Green Party any time soon, and with the current state of affairs we don't have time to f*ck around, ya know? But I applaud you, go build up your party, I hope it becomes a huge success. I also hope that one day we can live in a country that has a multi-party system but unfortunately our country was built on the foundation of a two-party system that shows no signs of changing. Them's the facts. If you want to ignore them, again, more power to you. Go Greens!

[amber]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

I try to have hope for a party that actually has a chance of getting candidates in office. If you think the Green Party can ever capture most of America's support (enough to make a difference mind you) then you're the one who is being fooled. And I have nothing against them, in fact, I agree with a lot of what they have to say. It's just that the majority of Americans are not going to fall in line with the Green Party any time soon, and with the current state of affairs we don't have time to f*ck around, ya know? But I applaud you, go build up your party, I hope it becomes a huge success. I also hope that one day we can live in a country that has a multi-party system but unfortunately our country was built on the foundation of a two-party system that shows no signs of changing. Them's the facts. If you want to ignore them, again, more power to you. Go Greens!

So if I'm understanding correctly, you're having hope for and voting for a party that has repeatedly and for years not accomplished what you want them to, or what they promised, and in a lot of cases has not even tried to accomplish those things? You want to continue to get candidates in office who accomplish nothing? As long as they have the title "Democrat"?
Well, that's one philosophy, I guess.

You are right, though, we sure don't have time to f*ck around. Too bad the Dems don't realize we don't have time to f*ck around, because all they've been doing for at least eight years is f*cking around. And I would also argue that Clinton did a ton of "f*cking around" as well. And I'm not talking about Monica.
Guess why our two party system shows no sign of changing?

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

I try to have hope for a party that actually has a chance of getting candidates in office. If you think the Green Party can ever capture most of America's support (enough to make a difference mind you) then you're the one who is being fooled. And I have nothing against them, in fact, I agree with a lot of what they have to say. It's just that the majority of Americans are not going to fall in line with the Green Party any time soon, and with the current state of affairs we don't have time to f*ck around, ya know? But I applaud you, go build up your party, I hope it becomes a huge success. I also hope that one day we can live in a country that has a multi-party system but unfortunately our country was built on the foundation of a two-party system that shows no signs of changing. Them's the facts. If you want to ignore them, again, more power to you. Go Greens!

I, too, think the Green party is awesome. I think the key to going Green is to understand reality. Vote Green in your local elections where there is a chance of success and the ability to grow a political base. Hopefully, you'll be able to vote Green is some statewide elections. But vote Democrat in presidential, senatorial and (in most cases) house elections. I don't think that such a betrayal to one's principles.

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by amber

You are right, though, we sure don't have time to f*ck around. Too bad the Dems don't realize we don't have time to f*ck around, because all they've been doing for at least eight years is f*cking around.

Well, I wouldn't say they've been ****ing around, I would say they've been shut out of the process by the ****ty republican controlled congress. Democrats are banned from consensus meetings between the senate and house, etc., etc., etc. You can't blame them for doing nothing when they don't have the opportunity.

Guess why our two party system shows no sign of changing?

If all of those great people of conscience had voted for Gore instead of Nader we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now.

[amber]

Originally Posted by The Tower

I, too, think the Green party is awesome. I think the key to going Green is to understand reality. Vote Green in your local elections where there is a chance of success and the ability to grow a political base. Hopefully, you'll be able to vote Green is some statewide elections. But vote Democrat in presidential, senatorial and (in most cases) house elections. I don't think that such a betrayal to one's principles.

I think it's a betrayal, but that is what I do anyway. Although there really isn't much reason for me to vote Dem for presidents anyway, what with the electoral college, and CA always being blue anyway. So, next time, Green for me.

I still think people's logic for doing so is flawed, though.

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Vote Green in your local elections where there is a chance of success and the ability to grow a political base.

Unless your many of your local Green candidates suck like here.

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by amber

Even Boxer didn't vote against the Patriot Act, or the war, and she didn't say anything when Clinton used military force in Bosnia, nor has she spoken up about wire tapping.

She voted against the war and she is one of the few senators who has spoken up about wire tapping, so far as to call for investigation into potential impeachment.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

She voted against the war and she is one of the few senators who has spoken up about wire tapping, so far as to call for investigation into potential impeachment.

Sorry, I meant she didn't speak up about the war. Also, most of congress, if not all, knew about the wire tapping since 2001 +. Also, my source wants to know when she spoke up about the wire tapping, and says it must have been fairly recent, which is pretty lame. Also, there's still the Patriot Act. Basically, my point still holds - even the democrats we consider our most liberal drop the ball, or don't pick it up.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

Unless your many of your local Green candidates suck like here.

I thought Camejo was excellent. Or are you speaking of more local elections?

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by amber

I thought Camejo was excellent. Or are you speaking of more local elections?

More local, like School Board and Board of Supes.

Although Camejo never should have participated in that sham of a recall. As gross as he was, Gray Davis won the election fair and square in '02 and there was no justification for a recall effort to begin a few weeks after that election.

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by amber

Basically, my point still holds - even the democrats we consider our most liberal drop the ball, or don't pick it up.

Without question. Boxer also spoke out against gay marriage in '04.