Abortion Stats

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by sparky

When I see you again
Will your back be waxed?
When I see you again
Will it be fur free ?
When I see you again
Will your stylist still say
He's still on the the wax bed
Gotta run his Amex
Sparky, Sparky
He's still on the wax bed
Go and get a cocktail
Let me trim your scruff now
Spaaaarrrky
Gotta shave the nutbag
Gotta trim the chest hair
Sparrrrrrrrrrrrkyyyyyyyy

and the dream says
I am smooth
and the shaving cream has flowed
now it looks huge standing on edge
well, at least there is some stuble left
for the abrasion
for the abrasion
oooooo that sensation
oooooo that sensation

[sparky]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

now it looks huge standing on edge

[irishgrl]

Strandie and Sparky are seriously demented. Nuff Said.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Strandie and Sparky are seriously demented. Nuff Said.

Hello - men are fascinated with one thing and one thing only - you know that - and when ya put a bunch of them together, the topic rarely strays

[sara1998]

Originally Posted by Jessica Leigh

a regular day to day BC pill helps stop fertilization in addition to stopping implantation (if it occurs) but with the morning after pill, only implantation is prohibited... so if a woman had unprotected sex and the egg was fertilized and she took the morning after pill, implantation would be stopped and the pregnancy would never progress, the fertilized egg dissolve or be shed with the monthly cycle...

I know all that, honey. I'm just saying, the end result is ultimately the same. No pregnancy.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

My problem with the war over Roe v. Wade, is that a vocal minority (and it is still a minority) is attempting to push THEIR version of morality on the rest of us. My spiritual philosophy believes that what makes a being "alive" is his/her SOUL, not just the mere fact of breathing.

So the issue would then be, when does a soul enter a body? at first breath? within the first few months? Many cultures wait a certain length of time before "welcoming" a newborn into the world, because they believe the soul isnt "fixed" into the body until then. Some souls change their minds and depart (crib death?)

If you believe in Reincarnation (as I do) you would know that you will live again, and I cant imagine any spirit entering a body destined for imminent death....at any rate, I certainly DONT want another person's morality shoved down my throat via the laws of this country. That isnt right and is just one example why we need to insist on separation of Church and State. No mandatory prayer in classrooms, no "under God" in the pledge, leave Roe v. Wade ALONE, teach SCIENCE in the classrooms, not worked over Bible stories....GAD!

I agree that we shouldn't push morality onto people. However I still don't quite understand when life begins. As you've demonstrated, we still don't have a definitive explanation for that. I'm thinking perhaps we can't? It's different for different people and different cultures, so what is murder to me is not murder to someone else and vice versa. What I perceive as murder is significant to me but doesn't have much, if anything, to do with the laws of our land.

Is this making sense? Feel free to tell me if it's not. There's someone talking to me right now and that makes it more difficult to wax philosophical.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

it didnt sound like you were on THIS topic, my mistake by the way, I edited that other post.
however, since you quoted me, it will now live on in INFAMY~ (thanks a heap!)

Oh, sorry that I quoted you and then you edited it. I didn't mean to do that.

I like to think that I am a hell of a lot more open-minded than people who are holding signs up at abortion clinics or threatening to shoot abortion doctors (or actually doing it). Even when I was pro-life, I had no desire to do that. (And that is an understatement). But I don't mean to run it into the ground.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Oh, sorry that I quoted you and then you edited it. I didn't mean to do that.

I like to think that I am a hell of a lot more open-minded than people who are holding signs up at abortion clinics or threatening to shoot abortion doctors (or actually doing it). Even when I was pro-life, I had no desire to do that. (And that is an understatement). But I don't mean to run it into the ground.

which was the spirit of my original comment, that since you were recalling your pro-life days, at least you werent as radical as some of them are.....

at any rate, the true debate is over when life begins, and to me there is a big difference between a having a heartbeat and being sentient.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I agree that we shouldn't push morality onto people. However I still don't quite understand when life begins. As you've demonstrated, we still don't have a definitive explanation for that. I'm thinking perhaps we can't? It's different for different people and different cultures, so what is murder to me is not murder to someone else and vice versa. What I perceive as murder is significant to me but doesn't have much, if anything, to do with the laws of our land.

Is this making sense? Feel free to tell me if it's not. There's someone talking to me right now and that makes it more difficult to wax philosophical.

That is the root of the problem right there. You cannot definitively know when it begins. It is a gray area, scientifically, and an impossible area spiritually. Even if there is scientific proof of some sort, people will hoot about holler about it anyway. I mean, you could carbon date the shroud of friggin Turin and prove with all available science that it is only 700 years old and people would say the scientific results are just a test of faith Which is why these arguments will rage on and on and on. Spirituality and logic are almost diametrically opposed.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Hello - men are fascinated with one thing and one thing only - you know that - and when ya put a bunch of them together, the topic rarely strays

well, it certainly makes for hilarious reading

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

which was the spirit of my original comment, that since you were recalling your pro-life days, at least you werent as radical as some of them are.....

Thankfully because those people can be so annoying! I feel the exact same way about capital punishment that they feel about abortion and I'm not nearly as obnoxious about it.

at any rate, the true debate is over when life begins, and to me there is a big difference between a having a heartbeat and being sentient.

If that is the debate, how can we get anywhere when no one seems to agree on that?

[sara1998]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Honestly, it doesn't really sit well with me and it probably never will. To me, terminating a pregnancy after the first month is killing a baby, but that is a belief, not a fact. I don't know how to eliminate that particular part of my belief system and I regret expressing it, but I have always felt that way. But it goes into the realm of religion and spirituality and then out of the realm of law, hopefully. I don't want to tell people what to do with their bodies, regardless. And I really don't know what I would do if I were in that situation, so I'm in no position to tell anyone else they shouldn't do something. That is how I reconcile it in my mind.

This is very well said. It doesn't sit well with me, either. For me, personally, abortion would not be a choice. It's something I personally would not do. But, that's my right to choice, and, who am I to tell someone else what they can or cannot do? Women have a right to choose.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by sparky

That is the root of the problem right there. You cannot definitively know when it begins. It is a gray area, scientifically, and an impossible area spiritually. Even if there is scientific proof of some sort, people will hoot about holler about it anyway. I mean, you could carbon date the shroud of friggin Turin and prove with all available science that it is only 700 years old and people would say the scientific results are just a test of faith Which is why these arguments will rage on and on and on. Spirituality and logic are almost diametrically opposed.

I just read something that said Da Vinci produced the Shroud of Turin as a joke on the Church! Something tells me he would have fit right in amongst our eclectic group!

anyway, Sparky, your post is very well put, and again, it highlights why the Church and State MUST be separate.

[amber]

Originally Posted by sparky

That is the root of the problem right there. You cannot definitively know when it begins. It is a gray area, scientifically, and an impossible area spiritually. Even if there is scientific proof of some sort, people will hoot about holler about it anyway. I mean, you could carbon date the shroud of friggin Turin and prove with all available science that it is only 700 years old and people would say the scientific results are just a test of faith Which is why these arguments will rage on and on and on. Spirituality and logic are almost diametrically opposed.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by sparky

That is the root of the problem right there. You cannot definitively know when it begins. It is a gray area, scientifically, and an impossible area spiritually. Even if there is scientific proof of some sort, people will hoot about holler about it anyway. I mean, you could carbon date the shroud of friggin Turin and prove with all available science that it is only 700 years old and people would say the scientific results are just a test of faith Which is why these arguments will rage on and on and on. Spirituality and logic are almost diametrically opposed.

Good points.

Uh, Brandon?