Band Face Off - Round 23

[SortaSavageLike]

Please don't tell me I'm the only one who thinks that Alanis is an obnoxious bitch?

I was once stuck in my brother-in-laws car for eleven hours, driving to and from my uncle's funeral, and he seemed to believe that Alanis Morisette and Brian Johnson were the only two vocalists on the planet. I think it was right after that I started getting into Fleetwood Mac.

He better not start lecturing me about Stevie's voice. I'd so totally play the hypocrisy card!

Well, there I go again, ranting once more.

[Moony]

Tori Tori Tori.

I think people write her off rather unfairly without really listening to her music. She is an amazing talent, but I'll accept she's not for everyone.

As for the other two, I like Jewel occasionally, and Alanis has had some good songs. However, they don't hold a candle to Tori, IMO.

[Miss Vicky]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Makes sense to me. I personally don't think it's fair to write off people's music just because of their gender. It would be like me saying there are only a couple of black artists I respect and the rest of them suck. Female artists are as wide and diverse as male artists. To dismiss them as simply "chick music" is insulting I think. But that's just me...

I don't write them off because they're women. I write them off because they make music that I don't like. If a song I've never heard comes on tv or the radio, even if its by an artist that I already don't like, I give it a chance (with some exceptions like Celine Dion who I become nauseous at the very sight of). And no matter how many chances I've given to the music of all three of these women, I've never been impressed.

But, for your sake, in the future I won't lump them together as "chick music" because that's insulting to your feminist soul. Instead I'll lump them together in a category I call "sh*t music," along with all the male artists I don't like. Is that better? Fair and equal.

Or better yet, I'll label the male artists "dick music" and call it even.

[Miss Vicky]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

I'm not sure why you feel the need to roll your eyes at me but don't worry I won't annoy you with any replies from now on.

I feel the need to roll my eyes at you because you're basically accusing me of being sexist, which isn't the case. You also didn't bother to answer the question I posed in the post previous to my last one.

I'm also rather annoyed by your hypocrisy. Why is it okay for you to call them "chick singers" but it's not okay for me to call what they play "chick music"? Explain that one if you can.

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Round 23 sees three hugely successful chick singers who made their names in the 1990s go up against each other. Just who will you pick?

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

I'm also rather annoyed by your hypocrisy. Why is it okay for you to call them "chick singers" but it's not okay for me to call what they play "chick music"? Explain that one if you can.

Can I take a stab?

Let's stick to the realm of semantics first: the attributive "chick" means very different things in those two phrases. In the first, it simply acts as a straight up adjective, telling you a simple fact about the singer: a chick singer is a singer who is female. The term "chick" is of course usually a mild derogatory term, but in this instance it's used playfully.

In the second phrase, "chick" does not work in the same way. It doesn't tell you that same simple fact. "Chick music" is not music made by a woman (I've never heard anyone refer to Billie Holiday or Janis Joplin songs as "chick music"), just as "chick flicks" are not films made by women. In this case, the term "chick" is making a much more loaded comment about the content and supposed audience of the music, and it's being used in a derogastory way that de facto extends to all women: "chick music" is not music *by* chicks, but music *for* chicks.

I think it's that difference that Sharon is taking issue with.

[Mari]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Hmmm, I don't think of it simply as "chick music". I think that's derogatory to every single woman who makes music. The Lilith Fair comment was off too, as only Jewel was on that tour. Each of these artists is completely different I think. The only thing they really have in common is the fact that they made it in the 90s and they are female singer songwriters. Okay feminist rant over

You've got a point. The term "chick lit", same argument.
And I do like some other artists who are often thrown in that bunch, like Sarah McLachlan.
But both Tori Amos and Jewel.. they seem so aggrieved to me, somehow. Right word? For the dutchies: verongelijkt!
Musically Tori's probably the best. But I can't stand her personality.

[DavidMn]

Tori defnintely here

[Miss Vicky]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Can I take a stab?...

I think it's that difference that Sharon is taking issue with.

Why don't you let Sharon speak for herself?

Not that she will, since she's chosen instead to delete posts and refuse to answer my questions.

And for the record, to you the term "chick singer" might mean simply a woman who sings, that's not necessarily what it implies to everyone. Therefore I still find it hypocritical.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

Why don't you let Sharon speak for herself?

Sorry, I'll untie her and take the gag out of her mouth and bring her up from the basement.

I wasn't precluding Sharon from speaking, I was just taking a stab at what I thought she might have taken issue with. If you want to have a discussion with just the two of you and nobody else throwing their two cents in, you should probably head for PMs. Otherwise, it's a public message board.

And for the record, to you the term "chick singer" might mean simply a woman who sings, that's not necessarily what it implies to everyone.

You're right, and I said, "chick" in that phrase is still usually a derogatory term, but in this instance it seemed to be used more playfully and ironically. I think Sharon got the sense that you weren't using the term in a playful way when you wrote about "chick music," and that might be what she took issue with.

[Miss Vicky]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

I didn't feel the need to add more plus I hate getting into big arguments on the board, it always depresses me that something that that's meant to be fun turns into something negative. Maybe it's my fault for replying to you in the first place but I must admit it offended me when you appeared to dismiss all female artists when you said: "Chick music makes me ill" and then backed this up with claiming you only respect a couple of female artists.

First of all, my intention was not to start an argument. I was merely expressing my opinion of the artists listed which it seemed to me was the entire purpose of the thread. Telling me that I can choose not to participate if I don't like the artists is ridiculous. You're pitting artists against each other and therefore must expect negative comments about them. I did not join this or any other message boards so that I could keep my opinions to myself.

I only became angry because when I attempted to discuss the topic with you, I was essentially ignored. You stated that the only thing the artists really have in common is that they are all female singer songwriters who made it big in the 90’s, thus implying that those shared traits are not enough to put them under the same label. I asked you “What other similarities or differences would even matter?” Your response? Was to completely ignore the question.

[Miss Vicky]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

I didn't reply to your post because I didn't want the argument to get any bigger, particularly as you seemed angry before that and I didn't want to make you any more pissed off.

Wrong again. I didn't get pissed off until you didn't answer the question, and got more pissed off when you started deleting your posts. Before that, what you saw was merely the sarcasm with which I typically express my opinions both online and in my everyday life. I've never been one to sugar coat my words.

[Miss Vicky]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

But that's how it came across to me, particularly as most people become sarcastic when they are pissed off.

Most people? Hmm. Don't know about that one. It seems to me that some of our most vocal Ledgies are quite often sarcastic, are we to assume that they're actually pissed off all the time? I think not.