Giuliani 08 - Page 2

dissention · #16 10-05-2005, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But, of the people who can run, who is better.

I personally like John Edwards and Wesley Clark - but cannot see them beating Rudy G. because outside of a minority in Manhattan, he is well liked by almost all Americans and he could have beaten W had he run in 04. That is a strong base.

Who is better? You answered your own question. John Edwards and Wesley Clark. Edwards may run, Clark certainly won't. It really doesn't matter to me who can beat Giuliani because no Democrat that runs against the man is going to beat him; the day he announces his candidacy is the day he might as well start packing for the White House. If that happens, run to your basement and hunker down for daylight.

strandinthewind · #17 10-05-2005, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMn

Why is he not well like by that small group? Dont mean to sound ignorant, just curious.

See my other post. Also, google him and read the yellow press stuff - they are not kind to him and most of it is deserved.

strandinthewind · #18 10-05-2005, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Who is better? You answered your own question. John Edwards and Wesley Clark. Edwards may run, Clark certainly won't. It really doesn't matter to me who can beat Giuliani because no Democrat that runs against the man is going to beat him; the day he announces his candidacy is the day he might as well start packing for the White House. If that happens, run to your basement and hunker down for daylight.

I agree that he is a shoe in.

However, I do not think he will be that bad. What exactly do you think he will do that is so horrible?

On edit - his use of the NYPD was rather firghtening - but will that translate to the Federal level, which has no police dept., per se, with the exception of the Dept. of Justice and when he worked for them as a prosecutor, he record was very good - I mean he prosecuted Marc Rich

estranged4life · #19 10-05-2005, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMn

Is he a moderate? can I ask what are his policies?

Governor Keating being a hardline Conserva-tard, I remember him being a very well respected moderate leader.

But Bush mustnt like good ol' Frank much, Everyone was sure Frank would have been the perfect choice for Shruby-nutts A.G. cabinet position, but the Bush Doctrine, (I meant Adminstration) had something against ol' Frank and chose otherwise.

Brian "What do you call an Oklahoman Democrat? A Republican" j.

DavidMn · #20 10-05-2005, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

See my other post. Also, google him and read the yellow press stuff - they are not kind to him and most of it is deserved.

I will do that, thank you. I'm a little tired so I'm sorry I missesd that other one.

strandinthewind · #21 10-05-2005, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMn

I will do that, thank you. I'm a little tired so I'm sorry I missesd that other one.

Its cool - they were cgoing rather fast

dissention · #22 10-05-2005, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

People mostly do not like him because they feel he sacrificed the homeless in Times Sq. and other places in NYC to get the tourism back up - crime fell drastically (though many argue Rudy G. had nothing to do with that and it just happened sua sponte). He also cut AIDS funding, but it is unclear if that was necessitated by budget contraints as opposed to ill will to the gay communty and Federal Programs allegedly picked up much of that slack - though many went through hell to be sure.

Again, he is no agngel, but there are far worse a la Frist, Lott, Delay, etc.

He also turned a blind eye to corruption in the NYPD and his Broken Windows policy was despicable. Not to mention his adventures with the Brooklyn Museum.

DavidMn · #23 10-05-2005, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Its cool - they were cgoing rather fast

You know I'm getting old now, I'll be 35 next year.....

My one gay friend said to me the other day that I'm now a T.I T, Troll In Training. I cant remember when I've laughed so hard!!!!

strandinthewind · #24 10-05-2005, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

He also turned a blind eye to corruption in the NYPD and his Broken Windows policy was despicable. Not to mention his adventures with the Brooklyn Museum.

oops - I edited as you posted.

As for the Brooklyn Museam - I have to say that with starving children in the US, inadequate health care, etc. - it seems to me that the govt. ought not to fund that - but then again, I think the govt. ought not fund most art when we cannot or will not feed out poor - but that is a whole other debate

Anyway - this is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani

Opposition to Brooklyn Museum art exhibit

In 1999 Giuliani threatened to cut off city funding for the Brooklyn Museum, shut it down and replace its current board with one of his own choosing if the museum did not remove a number of works in an exhibit entitled “Sensation: Young British Artists from the Saatchi Collection.” One work in particular, The Holy Virgin Mary by Turner Prize winning Catholic artist Chris Ofili, was targeted as being offensive to some in the Christian community in New York. This painting depicted a black Mary composed with collaged cut-outs of female genitalia from pornography magazines around her. Like many others by this artist, the montage also made use of elephant dung.[1] Ofili, while refusing to defend his work, commented that "The people who are attacking this painting are attacking their own interpretation, not mine," and that "This is all about control"[2].

In its defense, the museum filed a lawsuit, charging Giuliani with violating the First Amendment right to freedom of speech. This action by the mayor was condemned by groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union, objecting to the mayor's interference with the first amendment rights of the museum and censorship. Religious groups such as the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights supported the mayor's actions [3] [4]

At that time, it was widely expected that Giuliani and Hillary Clinton would compete for the open seat in the Senate in 2000. She said the mayor's action was the "wrong response," and added "I share the feeling that I know many New Yorkers have that there are parts of this exhibition that would be deeply offensive. I would not go see the exhibition[5]."

The museum's suit was successful, the mayor was ordered to resume funding and the judge declared that There is no federal constitutional issue more grave than the effort by government officials to censor works of expression and to threaten the vitality of a major cultural institution as punishment for failing to abide by governmental demands for orthodoxy[6].

dissention · #25 10-05-2005, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

What exactly do you think he will do that is so horrible?

Too many things to list, dear. He's a ****ing fascist.

strandinthewind · #26 10-05-2005, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Too many things to list, dear. He's a ****ing fascist.

Well, he is better than anything the R's can offer - which is my point and he will win, which is our point.

dissention · #27 10-05-2005, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, he is better than anything the R's can offer -

No, he's not. I'll take the Snowester before him any day.

Too bad she'd never run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

which is my point and he will win, which is our point.

Which makes me quake in my loafers.

xxxmx · #28 10-05-2005, 03:12 PM

i couldn't wait to move to nyc for like, three reasons:

1) it was not pittsburgh, pennsylvania

2) the red sox play in nyc (if only occasionally and vs. that team)

3) i could vote against giuliani

so i did, gleefully. i wish middle america would wake up and smell the resentment. he didn't save the city and he didn't save the world.

and just because he wouldn't be voted off the island first (delay, frist) doesn't mean anyone wants him on it.

strandinthewind · #29 10-05-2005, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

No, he's not. I'll take the Snowester before him any day.

Too bad she'd never run.

I think you know I meant and R who stood a chance of winning and therefore will run

- which will be Jeb, Lott, Romney, McCain (who is a good guy IMO) , and possibly Frist and DeLay, assuming they get out of their current legal troubles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Which makes me quake in my loafers.

I just do not think he will be that bad. I mean look at his record as a prosecutor, which pretty stellar and just

As for the NYPD stuff, I am unsure the drastic change in the crime rate could have taken place any other way, which is saddening - though not all of his actions were bad..

BTW - here is a pretty good article/commentary on the Broken Windows policy if anyone wants to read it http://www.umsl.edu/~nestor/Broken%20Windows.htm

DavidMn · #30 10-05-2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think you know I meant and R who stood a chance of winning and therefore will run

- which will be Jeb, Lott, Romney, McCain (who is a good guy IMO) , and possibly Frist and DeLay, assuming they get out of their current legal troubles.

I just do not think he will be that bad. I mean look at his record as a prosecutor, which pretty stellar and just

As for the NYPD stuff, I am unsure the drastic change in the crime rate could have taken place any other way, which is saddening - though not all of his actions were bad..

BTW - here is a pretty good article/commentary on the Broken Windows policy if anyone wants to read it http://www.umsl.edu/~nestor/Broken%20Windows.htm

No, but I dont think he'el have the Mob connections like Kennedy did, what with his zeal for prosecuting them back in the day....