Watch this one get deleted...

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I know and respect Chris, and I'm certain her intention was not to squelch a conversation simply because it had a conservative bent, as she's being accused of having done.

Of course that wasn't her intent and I think it's pretty offensive that people are suggesting it was. Only a dolt would pull such a thing and she can never be accused of being one.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

I have been.

you are the best.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by Dreammms

you should be allowed to say what you want to say.

Originally Posted by AliceLover

Not according to the ledge rules....

Well, I hope you were just being funny, Jimmy, because I don't see anything in the Ledge rules that prevents reasonable people with reasonable viewpoints from fully expressing themselves.

Surely no one is calling for the removal of all rules and guidelines. If so, then we might as well invite back those who have slandered homosexuals and other minorities and ethnicities, as well as those who have repeatedly and excessively belittled, harrassed and threatened other Ledgies.

I doubt that very many people would truly want that.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I think I know what post was deleted now (where Sheehan blamed Bush for the hurricane), and if I were a moderator, I would have done the same thing. Not for political reasons, but for human reasons. Honestly, who cares about Cindy Sheehan? I think intelligent people realize that she's a mother still mourning the loss of her son. For her, it's the single most tragic event she'll ever know. She's mad as hell, and is blaming W. for everything. Now, you can call her crazy and whatnot, but at her core, she a grieving mother who will never know a moment's peace again in her life. Hasn't she suffered enough? The war and political ideology aside, do you honestly not have enough humanity in you to see that?

Frankly, there was nothing intelligent about that debate.

We've talked much sillier things to death.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I think I know what post was deleted now (where Sheehan blamed Bush for the hurricane), and if I were a moderator, I would have done the same thing. Not for political reasons, but for human reasons. Honestly, who cares about Cindy Sheehan? I think intelligent people realize that she's a mother still mourning the loss of her son. For her, it's the single most tragic event she'll ever know. She's mad as hell, and is blaming W. for everything. Now, you can call her crazy and whatnot, but at her core, she a grieving mother who will never know a moment's peace again in her life. Hasn't she suffered enough? The war and political ideology aside, do you honestly not have enough humanity in you to see that?

So it's inhumane to challenge her statements, on a board she'll never read, because she's lost her son? Statements that she herself posted on a blog for all to read? She has made herself the focus of the debate, KNOWING that arguments like this will be made to shut up the opposition.

Frankly, there was nothing intelligent about that debate.

I don't know. I thought Jason's and Hillary's posts were pretty intelligent in that thread.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I think I know what post was deleted now (where Sheehan blamed Bush for the hurricane), and if I were a moderator, I would have done the same thing. Not for political reasons, but for human reasons. Honestly, who cares about Cindy Sheehan? I think intelligent people realize that she's a mother still mourning the loss of her son. For her, it's the single most tragic event she'll ever know. She's mad as hell, and is blaming W. for everything. Now, you can call her crazy and whatnot, but at her core, she a grieving mother who will never know a moment's peace again in her life. Hasn't she suffered enough? The war and political ideology aside, do you honestly not have enough humanity in you to see that?

Ok all of what you are saying is fine and great...but don't you think that we should have the right to discuss this issue and see all viewpoints if we would like too?

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

You've got to be kidding. You advocate Steve's stance that conservatives deserve to be deleted here because they're in power elsewhere?

Point out where Steve said that "conservatives deserve to be deleted here because they're in power elsewhere." That's not what I said at all. What I said was:

1. The Ledge is a privately owned board.
2. The moderators are appointed by the owners of this board, and they have the discretion to moderate discussions on the Ledge.
3. A majority of Ledgies who participate in political discussions are usually liberal, and many are of a minority group, specifically gay/lesbian.
4. Postings that threaten to offend the majority of Ledgies, then it is at the discretion of the moderators to remove such a post.
5. There are other places to have political discussions.
6. Since conservatives are in charge in the USA, it's not like a post on a privately owned internet message board dedicated to a rock band constitutes being held down.

If I thought there could be a normal conversation with conservatives, I wouldn't have an issue here, personally. But, there are two overriding factors for me in which I see a dangerous slippery-slope. First, there are a lot of folks from the GLBT community here. In some cases, this is the one place where they interact with others without feeling threatend. If we're being honest, there are a greater percentage of Ledgies who identify as GLBT than in the general population, so I think we need to have greater sensitivity to what is discussed here. Second, in a lot of (though not all) "conservative discussions," people start rehashing Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, etc, after they start feeling comfortable. A lot of times (again, not always) can lead to gay bashing. So, I'm betting Chris is trying to play it safe.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

We've talked much sillier things to death.

Exactly!

Give the lady a prize...

new car? The non-gas kind.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

new car? The non-gas kind.

Thanks! God knows I can't afford that kind so I'd need it to be given to me!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Point out where Steve said that "conservatives deserve to be deleted here because they're in power elsewhere." That's not what I said at all. What I said was:

1. The Ledge is a privately owned board.
2. The moderators are appointed by the owners of this board, and they have the discretion to moderate discussions on the Ledge.
3. A majority of Ledgies who participate in political discussions are usually liberal, and many are of a minority group, specifically gay/lesbian.
4. Postings that threaten to offend the majority of Ledgies, then it is at the discretion of the moderators to remove such a post.
5. There are other places to have political discussions.
6. Since conservatives are in charge in the USA, it's not like a post on a privately owned internet message board dedicated to a rock band constitutes being held down.

If I thought there could be a normal conversation with conservatives, I wouldn't have an issue here, personally. But, there are two overriding factors for me in which I see a dangerous slippery-slope. First, there are a lot of folks from the GLBT community here. In some cases, this is the one place where they interact with others without feeling threatend. If we're being honest, there are a greater percentage of Ledgies who identify as GLBT than in the general population, so I think we need to have greater sensitivity to what is discussed here. Second, in a lot of (though not all) "conservative discussions," people start rehashing Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, etc, after they start feeling comfortable. A lot of times (again, not always) can lead to gay bashing. So, I'm betting Chris is trying to play it safe.

So you ASSUME that all conservatives are anti-gay then. Hmmm...last time I checked each person doesn't fall into a simple set of lables (OH MY GOD IM LINDSEY!!!!... )

I happen to be for the rights of the GLBT community. And just because I'm a conservative doesn't mean I can't have an intelligent conversation...have you ever thought about the fact that YOU might make those who are conservative on this board feel uncomfortable? Just like you assume that "we" make the GLBT community feel uncomfortable.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

If I thought there could be a normal conversation with conservatives, I wouldn't have an issue here, personally. But, there are two overriding factors for me in which I see a dangerous slippery-slope. First, there are a lot of folks from the GLBT community here. In some cases, this is the one place where they interact with others without feeling threatend. If we're being honest, there are a greater percentage of Ledgies who identify as GLBT than in the general population, so I think we need to have greater sensitivity to what is discussed here. Second, in a lot of (though not all) "conservative discussions," people start rehashing Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, etc, after they start feeling comfortable. A lot of times (again, not always) can lead to gay bashing. So, I'm betting Chris is trying to play it safe.

Oh, man. First, who appointed you to be the spokesperson for the GLBT? Perhaps you should defer to Hillary on that one, who agrees with me. Secondly, it doesn't make much sense to delete conservative threads because of what MIGHT happen (and although you act like it's always going to happen, that's not REALLY the case. This board rarely gets out of hand.) But it's easier to shut down the debate than deal with it, I guess.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Thanks! God knows I can't afford that kind so I'd need it to be given to me!

How much are hybrids right now anyways?

Do you think the price will go down anytime?

[AliceLover]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Well, I hope you were just being funny, Jimmy, because I don't see anything in the Ledge rules that prevents reasonable people with reasonable viewpoints from fully expressing themselves.

Surely no one is calling for the removal of all rules and guidelines. If so, then we might as well invite back those who have slandered homosexuals and other minorities and ethnicities, as well as those who have repeatedly and excessively belittled, harrassed and threatened other Ledgies.

I doubt that very many people would truly want that.

Sorry, thought I read a post that said we didn't have free speech. Thats all I meant and it WAS in a joking manner.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

If I thought there could be a normal conversation with conservatives, I wouldn't have an issue here, personally. But, there are two overriding factors for me in which I see a dangerous slippery-slope. First, there are a lot of folks from the GLBT community here. In some cases, this is the one place where they interact with others without feeling threatend. If we're being honest, there are a greater percentage of Ledgies who identify as GLBT than in the general population, so I think we need to have greater sensitivity to what is discussed here. Second, in a lot of (though not all) "conservative discussions," people start rehashing Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, etc, after they start feeling comfortable. A lot of times (again, not always) can lead to gay bashing. So, I'm betting Chris is trying to play it safe.

I am very, very sensitive to this issue of gay bashing and how easily it can start up on this board. I am all for not allowing comments that defame sexual orientation, as stated in the FAQ (even I'm referring to them! ). BUT--I don't think we're even close to being there. And I know that we have people with conservative leanings on this board who are capable of being respectful of the members of the GLBT community. I know that those conservative leaders are complete homophobes but we don't have to talk about that unfortunate aspect of their personalities. Also, if someone wants to talk about Coulter, for example, and I just think she's a beeyotch and I don't want to discuss her (which would be true) then I don't have to participate in the thread.

[Dreammms]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

So it's inhumane to challenge her statements, on a board she'll never read, because she's lost her son? Statements that she herself posted on a blog for all to read? She has made herself the focus of the debate, KNOWING that arguments like this will be made to shut up the opposition. I don't know. I thought Jason's and Hillary's posts were pretty intelligent in that thread.

I have to agree with Nancy. I don't see anything wrong with discussing that. I understand that you aren't allowed to post links to message boards. But is it okay for us to discuss the stuff that was said on the message board? That has been done before here.