Katrina

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Dreammms

I understand that but that isn't what they had in their carts. I was telling you what they had.

I saw them putting clothing, socks, underwear and shoes into their carts. What did you see?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

And aircraft are certainly capable of flying over large areas in a very short amount of time.

I know that - but they have to find the people I am not saying it is not a good idea - but I am unsure how it could be executed in an efficient manner seeing as how we are dealing with thousands of square miles here. In other words, they cannot drop them from a high altitude because chances are it will drop near no one. So, the chopper would have to fly over cities - or what is left of them - and them over the vast rural areas, which are also devastated. Who knows, maybe they can and will do it and if they do, hopefully it will work.

[Dreammms]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

It is just a bad scene. I mean can you imagine being there. I cannot. Imagine your heartache when you see the rescue boat go by each time and seemingly get everyone but you and there you are in the filth and squalor you have been sitting in the 90+ degree heat with no food or water on your roof. That would drive me to do things I would not ordinarily do - though I would not shoot people because it would tend to make them not want to rescue me
I also wonder if the typhoid, cholera, and other infection risk is too great as well.

that is terrible.

or sitting there watching other people getting picked as you sit their with your elderly parents and your children. your child who hasn't had anything to eat and is crying because they want to go home.

that is heartbreaking.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by dissention

Ha. FEMA warned four years ago that a hurricane hitting NO was one of three most likely disasters in America. Bush then cut flood control funds in NO by almost fifty percent.

They asked for about 40 million last year and Bush cut it down to 10.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I agree

I guess I have just lived through this scenario one too many times.

You lived through an entire metropolis being wiped out?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

They asked for about 40 million last year and Bush cut it down to 10.

And this is what Cindy Sheehan meant in her piece yesterday:

Why New Orleans is in deep water
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...l=chi-news-hed

Molly Ivins, Creators Syndicate
Published September 1, 2005

AUSTIN, Texas -- Like many of you who love New Orleans, I find myself taking short mental walks there today, turning a familiar corner, glimpsing a favorite scene, square or vista. And worrying about the beloved friends and the city, and how they are now.

To use a fine Southern word, it's tacky to start playing the blame game before the dead are even counted. It is not too soon, however, to make a point that needs to be hammered home again and again, and that is that government policies have real consequences in people's lives.

This is not "just politics" or blaming for political advantage. This is about the real consequences of what governments do and do not do about their responsibilities. And about who winds up paying the price for those policies.

This is a column for everyone in the path of Hurricane Katrina who ever said, "I'm sorry, I'm just not interested in politics," or, "There's nothing I can do about it," or, "Eh, they're all crooks anyway."

Nothing to do with me, nothing to do with my life, nothing I can do about any of it. Look around you this morning. I suppose the National Rifle Association would argue, "Government policies don't kill people, hurricanes kill people." Actually, hurricanes plus government policies kill people.

One of the main reasons New Orleans is so vulnerable to hurricanes is the gradual disappearance of the wetlands on the Gulf Coast that once stood as a natural buffer between the city and storms coming in from the water. The disappearance of those wetlands does not have the name of a political party or a particular administration attached to it. No one wants to play, "The Democrats did it," or, "It's all Reagan's fault." Many environmentalists will tell you more than a century's interference with the natural flow of the Mississippi is the root cause of the problem, cutting off the movement of alluvial soil to the river's delta.

But in addition to long-range consequences of long-term policies like letting the Corps of Engineers try to build a better river than God, there are real short-term consequences, as well. It is a fact that the Clinton administration set some tough policies on wetlands, and it is a fact that the Bush administration repealed those policies--ordering federal agencies to stop protecting as many as 20 million acres of wetlands.

Last year, four environmental groups cooperated on a joint report showing the Bush administration's policies had allowed developers to drain thousands of acres of wetlands.

Does this mean we should blame President Bush for the fact that New Orleans is underwater? No, but it means we can blame Bush when a Category 3 or Category 2 hurricane puts New Orleans under. At this point, it is a matter of making a bad situation worse, of failing to observe the First Rule of Holes (when you're in one, stop digging).

Had a storm the size of Katrina just had the grace to hold off for a while, it's quite likely no one would even remember what the Bush administration did two months ago. The national press corps has the attention span of a gnat, and trying to get anyone in Washington to remember longer than a year ago is like asking them what happened in Iznik, Turkey, in A.D. 325.

Just plain political bad luck that, in June, Bush took his little ax and chopped $71.2 million from the budget of the New Orleans Corps of Engineers, a 44 percent reduction. As was reported in New Orleans CityBusiness at the time, that meant "major hurricane and flood projects will not be awarded to local engineering firms. Also, a study to determine ways to protect the region from a Category 5 hurricane has been shelved for now."

The commander of the corps' New Orleans district also immediately instituted a hiring freeze and canceled the annual corps picnic.

Our friends at the Center for American Progress note the Office of Technology Assessment used to produce forward-thinking plans such as "Floods: A National Policy Concern" and "A Framework for Flood Hazards Management." Unfortunately, the office was targeted by Newt Gingrich and the Republican right, and gutted years ago.

In fact, there is now a governmentwide movement away from basing policy on science, expertise and professionalism, and in favor of choices based on ideology. If you're wondering what the ideological position on flood management might be, look at the pictures of New Orleans--it seems to consist of gutting the programs that do anything.

Unfortunately, the war in Iraq is directly related to the devastation left by the hurricane. About 35 percent of Louisiana's National Guard is now serving in Iraq, where four out of every 10 soldiers are guardsmen. Recruiting for the Guard is also down significantly because people are afraid of being sent to Iraq if they join, leaving the Guard even more short-handed.

The Louisiana National Guard also notes that dozens of its high-water vehicles, Humvees, refuelers and generators have also been sent abroad. (I hate to be picky, but why do they need high-water vehicles in Iraq?)

This, in turn, goes back to the original policy decision to go into Iraq without enough soldiers and the subsequent failure to admit that mistake and to rectify it by instituting a draft.

The levees of New Orleans, two of which are now broken and flooding the city, were also victims of Iraq war spending. Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, said on June 8, 2004, "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq."

This, friends, is why we need to pay attention to government policies, not political personalities, and to know whereon we vote. It is about our lives.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, they are being shot at - they cannot do anyone any good if they are dead

So what is it? Are they getting the supplies or not?

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by dissention

Ha. FEMA warned four years ago that a hurricane hitting NO was one of three most likely disasters in America. Bush then cut flood control funds in NO by almost fifty percent.

I linked to an article earlier that quoted as much as 70%.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Ha. FEMA warned four years ago that a hurricane hitting NO was one of three most likely disasters in America. Bush then cut flood control funds in NO by almost fifty percent.

Well, he is in good company seeing as how no President in the last 30 or 40 years has done squat - though many a politician and their cronies have made a pretty penny discussing it. Moreover, history demonstrates none of that money would have been put to good use in NOLA anyway - for the most part it never has save for the re-doing of the pumping system and the ACE constant work on the levees. In any event and despite that red herring, FEMA has the money now

[Dreammms]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I saw them putting clothing, socks, underwear and shoes into their carts. What did you see?

that's what i saw too.

if you look at my post you will see i said

Originally Posted by Dreammms
It wasn't food. Shoes and clothing.

all i was stating is what i saw.

i don't fault any of these people. if i was them i would be total nutcase and be very scared. seeing my home destroyed, walking through all that water that has dead bodies and sewage. hearing the cries from my children and seeing my family in need.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

You lived through an entire metropolis being wiped out?

Of course not - nice try.

But, I have lived through many a hurricane and seen the looting that occurs. That the whole city was not destroyed does not mean I did not see looting.

Nice try though

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

So what is it? Are they getting the supplies or not?

As of last night they were. Apparently, the gunshots from the people at the dome have the authorities alarmed for their safety - can't say I blame them.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I know that - but they have to find the people I am not saying it is not a good idea - but I am unsure how it could be executed in an efficient manner seeing as how we are dealing with thousands of square miles here.

If we can do it in Afghanistan, we can do it here.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Dreammms

that is terrible.

or sitting there watching other people getting picked as you sit their with your elderly parents and your children. your child who hasn't had anything to eat and is crying because they want to go home.

that is heartbreaking.

Yes. It is.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I linked to an article earlier that quoted as much as 70%.

Please demonstrate how that cut in funding directly effected the current situation. I suggest you cannot as the projects in these cuts (some in June) could not have been completed as of now Though the cuts, which are certainly not a new thing for this region, suck.