NASA grounds shuttle fleet

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally Posted by skcin

^ Well what the f*ck are they doing up there?

There are many experiments and tests that are done while onboard the Space Station as well as while the space shuttle is in orbit. As much as I think money could better be spent elsewhere, I can then argue with the fact that I sat at the DMV for an hour yesterday while a bunch of overpaid, underworked state government assholes did absolutely nothing. I can also argue the fact that it's a waste of government money to send out zillions of forms per year. I have a friend that works for the IRS and designs the tax forms. If he ****s up a form, it costs the government a few million dollars. Imagine where all of that money could be better spent. "Out of a $2.4 trillion budget, less than 0.8% is spent on the entire space program." Hardly breaking the bank, IMO.

I think there is and has been much learned from experimentation health and science wise that we can then utilize here on Earth. If you want to take a look at all of the advancements in technology that have been improved on and invented courtesy of the space program, this is a site to take a look at.

http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html

[estranged4life]

have yet another interesting item to discuss with my sister Lesa, Whose husband Scott knows a few people on this shuttle (He works on the F-22's at Edwards and knows a bunch of NASA folk).

Hope everything turns out to be alright for 'em...

[Mokona]

I agree about the government workers. There are many who work very hard and deserve their benefits and pay, but then there's the goof-offs who just milk the system and basically can't be fired. My uncle works for the government and has told the family some stories.

As for why NASA hasn't come up with better technology, they seem like they've been in a rut for 20+ years with this shuttle and have been victims of their own decisions at times. They were warned by a couple of Morton Thiokol's engineers back in '86 about the danger the cold presented to Challenger's SRB's O-rings, yet they chose not to heed that advice. They also knew these orbiters were aging and weren't going to continue to hold up that well to repeated launches, yet ignored some of their own engineers' warnings.

I think it's like any government organization - the people with the most promise are probably stuck in the middle somewhere and have to go through layers of management to get an idea across, while the big ego suits are running the show. Money is a factor too - there have been a lot of cutbacks in spending for the space program.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally Posted by Mokona

I agree about the government workers. There are many who work very hard and deserve their benefits and pay, but then there's the goof-offs who just milk the system and basically can't be fired. My uncle works for the goverment and has told the family some stories.

As for why NASA hasn't come up with better technology, they seem like they've been in a rut for 20+ years with this shuttle and have been victims of their own decisions at times. They were warned by a couple of Morton Thiokol's engineers back in '86 about the danger the cold presented to Challenger's SRB's O-rings, yet they chose not to heed that advice. They also knew these orbiters were aging and weren't going to continue to hold up that well to repeated launches, yet ignored some of their own engineers' warnings.

I think it's like any government organization - the people with the most promise are probably stuck in the middle somewhere and have to go through layers of management to get an idea across, while the big ego suits are running the show. Money is a factor too - there have been a lot of cutbacks in spending for the space program.

After the Columbia accident and after NASA came under fire, wasn't it then brought under new leadership? It seems like there's a whole new regime so-to-speak. No doubt, after what happened to Columbia, if they want a space program of any sort to be in existance, they'll wise up and become much more conscious of design flaws which is what I think we're seeing here. Honestly, they could retire the fleet all together and make money off of the parts if not use them for something else.

[Mokona]

This article sheds some light on NASA's personnel and some of their challenges:

http://p134.news.scd.yahoo.com/s/cpr...tle_rusty_nasa

They don't make flight directors like Gene Kranz and Chris Kraft anymore either. Guys like those were one in a million flight directors and Kranz was instrumental in bringing Apollo 13's astronauts back home. NASA needs people like those with great minds, piloting ability and good decision-making skills.

[greatdarkwing]

Originally Posted by GardenStateGirlie

There are many experiments and tests that are done while onboard the Space Station as well as while the space shuttle is in orbit. As much as I think money could better be spent elsewhere, I can then argue with the fact that I sat at the DMV for an hour yesterday while a bunch of overpaid, underworked state government assholes did absolutely nothing. I can also argue the fact that it's a waste of government money to send out zillions of forms per year. I have a friend that works for the IRS and designs the tax forms. If he ****s up a form, it costs the government a few million dollars. Imagine where all of that money could be better spent. "Out of a $2.4 trillion budget, less than 0.8% is spent on the entire space program." Hardly breaking the bank, IMO.

I think there is and has been much learned from experimentation health and science wise that we can then utilize here on Earth. If you want to take a look at all of the advancements in technology that have been improved on and invented courtesy of the space program, this is a site to take a look at.

http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html

YOU ARE SOOO HOT!

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally Posted by Mokona

This article sheds some light on NASA's personnel and some of their challenges:

http://p134.news.scd.yahoo.com/s/cpr...tle_rusty_nasa

They don't make flight directors like Gene Kranz and Chris Kraft anymore either. Guys like those were one in a million and both were to be credited with bringing Apollo 13 down safely. NASA needs people like those with great minds, piloting ability and good decision-making skills.

Thanks for the read. I've had a look at all of the profiles for the astronauts and I think their background is pretty amazing. Let's hope they all do come home safely with their prior knowledge and the training they've received.

[greatdarkwing]

Originally Posted by GardenStateGirlie

Thanks for the read. I've had a look at all of the profiles for the astronauts and I think their background is pretty amazing. Let's hope they all do come home safely with their prior knowledge and the training they've received.

Agreed. I hope all goes well for them. I loved how they were woken up this morning with "I Got You Babe."

[GardenStateGirlie]

Images Used For Shuttle Briefing

You can see exactly which section has lost tile. I mean, they literally have each piece of tile accounted for and down to a fine science.

[Mokona]

Thanks for that link, GSG. They certainly do have it down to a tee, don't they? It looks like the shuttle crew is in good hands with these engineers. I don't remember Columbia's problem being so thoroughly dissected.

BTW, I love having someone to chat with about all of this! My family usually tunes me out after awhile.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally Posted by Mokona

Thanks for that link, GSG. They certainly do have it down to a tee, don't they? It looks like the shuttle crew is in good hands with these engineers. I don't remember Columbia's problem being so thoroughly dissected.

BTW, I love having someone to chat with about all of this! My family usually tunes me out after awhile.

Well, like I said, to prevent any further blows to the agency, it was either make the effort and sink all you have into the prevention of another disaster or they can kiss the program goodbye. I don't think there was any other alternative for them.

Oh, me too! I was schooling Greg (DeadliestPoison) on escape velocity earlier. He thinks i'm an uber nerd now. I love it

[skcin]

Some of the most frequently asked questions about the U.S. space program are "Why go into space when we have so many problems here on Earth?" and "What does the space program do for me?"

I like how the first line on the site Marissa directed me to directly almost quoted me.

[bikerchic]

Originally Posted by skcin

^ Well what the f*ck are they doing up there?

Because you are the "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA", King of the world, nuff said

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally Posted by skcin

I like how the first line on the site Marissa directed me to directly almost quoted me.

Well, I mean, it's a relevant question that's obviously asked a lot. I remember in 8th grade, we had to decide whether or not we were for or against space exploration. I suppose I learned a lot from research because ever since then, i've been all about it

[GardenStateGirlie]

NASA Pessimistic About Solving Debris Woes

SPACE CENTER, Houston - NASA may never be able to prevent threatening chunks of insulation foam from breaking off the shuttle's fuel tank during launch, the agency's chief said Thursday, a day after future flights were ordered grounded because of the problem during Discovery's liftoff.

"We are trying to get it down to the level that cannot damage the orbiter," NASA administrator Michael Griffin told NBC's "Today."

"We will never be able to get the amount of debris shed by the tank down to zero," he said.

With Discovery in orbit, NASA grounded all future flights because a large chunk of foam had broken off the external fuel tank in a hauntingly similar fashion to Columbia's doomed mission. This time, NASA believes the foam missed the spacecraft, although it's being closely inspected.

"Everything that we see at this point says that the orbiter is in fact a clean bird," Griffin told ABC's "Good Morning America" on Thursday shortly after the shuttle did a somersault maneuver to allow the crew on the international space station to photograph the shuttle's belly for signs of damage. Discovery later docked at station to deliver long-awaited supplies.

Griffin stressed in a statement late Wednesday that the current mission was a test flight and "among the things we are testing are the integrity of the foam insulation and the performance of new camera equipment installed to detect problems."

"The cameras worked well. The foam did not," he said.

The loss of such a large chunk of debris, a vexing problem NASA thought had been fixed, shattered the euphoria from Tuesday's shuttle launch, the first in 2 1/2 years. The redesign of the fuel tank was the focal point of the space agency's $1 billion-plus effort to make the 20-year-old space shuttles safer to fly following the 2003 Columbia tragedy.

The grounding also adds to the burden on the space station, which has been relying solely on Russia's much smaller spacecraft for crew and cargo deliveries.

House Science Committee Chairman Sherwood Boehlert, R-N.Y., said NASA is handling the situation "exactly right."

"It doesn't appear that the mission is in jeopardy. Nothing is in jeopardy except the schedule. But I don't want to underestimate the seriousness of it in terms of the future," Boehlert said.

The three remaining shuttles are due to retire in 2010, and a new spacecraft is in the works. President Bush has a lofty plan for NASA to return astronauts to the moon by 2020 and eventually to Mars. It's unclear how the latest grounding might affect public sentiment for the space program.

The piece of foam flew off Discovery's redesigned tank just two minutes after what initially looked like a perfect liftoff, right after the booster rockets peeled away. But in less than an hour NASA had spotted images of a mysterious object whirling away from the tank.

Mission managers did not realize what the object was — or how much havoc it would cause — until Wednesday after reviewing video and images taken by just a few of the 100-plus cameras in place to watch for such dangers.

Shuttle program manager Bill Parsons offered no excuses, saying, "You have to admit when you're wrong. We were wrong."

Engineers believe the irregularly sized piece of foam that came off was 24 to 33 inches long, 10 to 14 inches wide, and between 2 and 8 inches thick — only somewhat smaller than the 1.67-pound chunk that smashed into Columbia's left wing during liftoff. The plate-sized hole let in superheated gases that caused the shuttle to break up on its return to Earth on Feb. 1, 2003.

On Discovery, the foam broke away from a different part of the tank than the piece that mortally wounded Columbia.

Atlantis — whose own fuel tank is now suspect — was supposed to lift off in September, but that mission is now on indefinite hold. Parsons refused to speculate when a shuttle might fly again, but did not rule out the possibility that Discovery's current mission may be the only one for 2005.

Parsons said it was unlikely Atlantis would be needed for a rescue mission, in the event Discovery could not return safely to Earth and its astronauts had to move into the space station. Discovery, fortunately, appears to be in good shape for re-entry, he said.

Wednesday's inspection of Discovery's wings and nose using a new 100-foot, laser-tipped crane turned up nothing alarming, but analysis was ongoing, Hale said.

In addition to the big chunk of foam, several smaller pieces broke off, including at least one from an area of the fuel tank that had been modified after Columbia. Thermal tile was also damaged on Discovery's belly soon after liftoff; one tile lost a 1 1/2-inch piece right next to the set of doors for the nose landing gear, a particularly vulnerable spot.

Deputy shuttle manager Wayne Hale said none of the tile damage looked serious and likely would not require repairs in orbit.

Imagery experts and engineers expect to know by Thursday afternoon whether the gouge left by the missing piece of tile — or anything else — needs another look. The astronauts' inspection boom could determine precisely how deep the damage is, and they will probably pull it back out Friday.