Survivor: Members of Fleetwood Mac - ROUND 6 - Page 19

~nightbird~ · #**271** 07-09-2005, 10:58 AM

Billy Burnette to go in round 8.

jwd · #**272** 07-09-2005, 11:37 AM

Personally I think Stevie knocks the crap out of all FM members past and present. THE TRUE SURVIVOR. STEVIE FOR THE WIN!

shackin'up · #**273** 07-09-2005, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

All the better!
Overcoming adversity to be extremely successful is far more rewarding than having a cushy, "all the critics love me" free-ride.

oh yeah, I forgot. Americans go for succes and money. Esp Chiffon Heads. So glad i've got a cultural background and can be VERY happy without doe and fame. Oh typical No-Depth American Chiffonheads.

No, I'd rather be a fatalist loser...WITH taste and culture in stead of Lightness and Cocktails for Brains.

HomerMcvie · #**274** 07-09-2005, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shackin'up

oh yeah, I forgot. Americans go for succes and money. Esp Chiffon Heads. So glad i've got a cultural background and can be VERY happy without doe and fame. Oh typical No-Depth American Chiffonheads.

No, I'd rather be a fatalist loser...WITH taste and culture in stead of Lightness and Cocktails for Brains.

**jbrownsjr** · #**275** 07-09-2005, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreammms

are you people crazy???????????? how can you guys vote off LINDSEY and STEVIE first???????????

Homer's got me hip mo tized!

**jbrownsjr** · #**276** 07-09-2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shackin'up

not me, dear.

shackin up is all you wanna do!

**jbrownsjr** · #**277** 07-09-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

I proclaim Sheryl Crow the winner.

GAME OVER.

for her great keyboard work

ok no

**jbrownsjr** · #**278** 07-09-2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Shhh. I agree. But we have to have some fun in the meantime.

you r on a roll!!!

**jbrownsjr** · #**279** 07-09-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwd

Personally I think Stevie knocks the crap out of all FM members past and present. THE TRUE SURVIVOR. STEVIE FOR THE WIN!

where's carne when u need him!!!

Johnny Stew · #**280** 07-09-2005, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shackin'up

oh yeah, I forgot. Americans go for succes and money. Esp Chiffon Heads. So glad i've got a cultural background and can be VERY happy without doe and fame. Oh typical No-Depth American Chiffonheads.

No, I'd rather be a fatalist loser...WITH taste and culture in stead of Lightness and Cocktails for Brains.

Ah, but you automatically assumed that by "success," I was speaking of fame and fortune.
I feel touching the lives of massive audiences with a very unconventional voice, abstruse lyrics and only limited musical ability is a true success.

Anyone can appeal to the ears with bells, whistles and other technical wizardry... I'm more impressed by someone who can appeal to the heart. And the hearts of hundreds of thousands, at that.
That's what this cultured gentleman calls a "success"... music-theory elitists and self-appointed intelligentsia be damned.

David · #**281** 07-09-2005, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Ah, but youI feel touching the lives of massive audiences with a very unconventional voice, abstruse lyrics and only limited musical ability is a true success.

I've said it before & I'll say it again: Stevie plays piano better than Christine does.

Quote:

Anyone can appeal to the ears with bells, whistles and other technical wizardry.

No, actually anyone can't. A lot of people amass technique & facile tricks & then bombard you with them, but the resultant junk doesn't necessarily appeal to your eyes or any other part of your body.

Quote:

I'm more impressed by someone who can appeal to the heart. And the hearts of hundreds of thousands, at that.

Stew, it's okay to prefer "The Sound of Music" (remember Kael's description of moisture being "squeezed out of millions of eyes & ears"?) to "Citizen Kane." Don't apologize for it!

It's unfair & inaccurate of you to make the Fleetwood Mac situation a zero sum game: either you're emotionally moving millions of people or you're nothing but a technician. Sometimes you're doing both & sometimes you're doing neither. The greatest of artists join feats of technique with that emotional strength that you find in Jean Renoir ("The Rules of the Game," "A Day in the Country"). In such artists, form & content truly become insoluble.

Furthermore, some of the greatest "emotional" artists never became widely known, let alone loved, until decades after their death -- if at all.

Finally, as regards my "Sound of Mucus" ... er "Music" mention, it's always been true that much of what appeals to people's emotions can be superficial, tearjerky, mawkish, trite, banal, sentimental, etc. Moving thousands or even millions of people can't in & of itself be considered an aesthetic virtue. The work still has to stand by itself & be judged in at least somewhat formalistic terms.

By the way, I reject that "emotional" label for art because it sets up a false dichotomy. All great & even good art has emotional impact -- otherwise, it wouldn't last by resonating with generation upon generation. Even a highly cerebral, technically complex Bach fugue connects with listeners emotionally -- often in a way that is much more lasting & powerful than the more syrupy sounds of, say, a Michel Legrand theme.

**jbrownsjr** · #**282** 07-09-2005, 03:38 PM

Stevie plays better piano

David come over and share that stuff you are smokin!!

I've heard Stevie play many time and I aint' buying it. She can kick out chords sure but c'mon.

GateandGarden · #**283** 07-09-2005, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Stevie plays better piano

David come over and share that stuff you are smokin!!

I've heard Stevie play many time and I aint' buying it. She can kick out chords sure but c'mon.

He's baffling me too.

dreamongypsydkm · #**284** 07-09-2005, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

A member of Fleetwood Mac, past or present.

Immunity to Lindsey, the greatest contributor to FM regardless of the ignorance of masses and their attraction to chiffon, basic tunes and limited piano thumping skills.

I chose Lindsey too for reasons I mentioned at the time, but I still have to defend Stevie.
I highly doubt the people here are voting because they're attracted to chiffon. It's more than that. It's the person, the lyrics, and the melody. As it is with you and Lindsey. I've never bought into rivalry. I like The Who and Zeppelin. I like The Stones and The Beatles. I can appreciate both options (even though I obviously prefer Zep and Beatles to the others). Let's not turn this into insults.
You know how happy Lindsey makes you? There are a lot of people on this board who love Stevie in that same way. Like I love Bono. When someone says they hate him or U2 I get so mad and sad I could cry. What if someone had posted something this insulting about you as a Lindsey fan and about Lindsey? You'd be hurt and we both know it. I'm just saying don't just assume the Stevie fans only enjoy scarves and boots, cause it's about a lot more than that.

Johnny Stew · #**285** 07-09-2005, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

No, actually anyone can't. A lot of people amass technique & facile tricks & then bombard you with them, but the resultant junk doesn't necessarily appeal to your eyes or any other part of your body.

Grr. I should have said "many" people.

I was thinking in terms of "one hit wonders" and material like that. Stuff that appeals to a mass audience solely because it sounds good... gets you humming and your toes tapping. But ultimately fades from memory, because it didn't really speak to your soul.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Stew, it's okay to prefer "The Sound of Music" (remember Kael's description of moisture being "squeezed out of millions of eyes & ears"?) to "Citizen Kane." Don't apologize for it!

You may be surprised to know (but, then again, maybe you wouldn't be surprised, David) that I love both 'Sound Of Music' and 'Citizen Kane.'

I'm not an "either/or" person. I find value in quite a number of seemingly opposing works of art.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

It's unfair & inaccurate of you to make the Fleetwood Mac situation a zero sum game: either you're emotionally moving millions of people or you're nothing but a technician. Sometimes you're doing both & sometimes you're doing neither.

It's a lame defense on my part, I admit.
From the Buckingham fans, one is always hearing how Nicks fans are merely mindless lemmings, taken with Stevie the way an infant might be with a shiny object. That she's all flash and no substance.
They come out firmly on the side of Stevie being an airhead's delight.

In terms of their solo work, I do think that Stevie's material was more popular/appealing, because it tends to be more visceral. Lindsey's technical proficiency may make him a critical darling, but I think his reliance on studio wizardy also alienated a lot of people who want to feel a kinship with the artist.
But of course music doesn't have to be one or the other. Certainly you can create something that's not only technically brilliant but emotionally resonant as well. And certainly you can create something that resonates with massive amounts of people without it being mere pablum.

That "Nicks fans aren't smart enough to appreciate Lindsey's art" claim is extremely elitist, far too simplistic, and completely misguided.
If I were a more articulate man, I'd be able to offer a more insightful counter argument -- I know I'd sure love to hear you debate the view that anyone who doesn't appreciate Buckingham's music must be a chowderhead!

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Finally, as regards my "Sound of Mucus" ... er "Music" mention, it's always been true that much of what appeals to people's emotions can be superficial, tearjerky, mawkish, trite, banal, sentimental, etc. Moving thousands or even millions of people can't in & of itself be considered an aesthetic virtue.

Certainly that's not true in every situation... otherwise, I shudder to think what all of those Top 20 hits imply about Christine's songwriting!