France Rejects EU Constitution

irishgrl · #1 05-30-2005, 06:56 AM

By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

PARIS - In a stunning rejection of the
European Union's latest ambitious move to unite its 25 nations, French voters shot down the bloc's first constitution, dealing a potentially fatal blow to the charter and humiliating President Jacques Chirac.

Sunday's referendum in France, a cradle of continental unity for more than half a century and the country where much of the constitution was painstakingly written, threatened to set back plans for broader European integration by years.

About 55 percent of voters opposed the treaty — the first rejection in Europe. France's repudiation came ahead of Wednesday's referendum in the Netherlands, where polls show even more resistance to the constitution, and had EU leaders scrambling to do damage control.

"The result raises profound questions for all of us about the future direction of Europe," British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said.

But the European Union's industry commissioner, Guenther Verheugen, said the vote was not a catastrophe and that the situation should not be over-dramatized.
European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, while conceding the outcome was a "serious problem," insisted: "We cannot say that the treaty is dead."

Chirac had waged an all-out campaign to persuade nearly 42 million sharply divided voters to approve the charter. But the electorate was in a rebellious mood, with unemployment running at 10 percent and unease about the direction Europe is taking.

Turnout was close to 70 percent — testifying to the passions that the treaty and the debate surrounding it aroused.

Chirac argued that the constitution would streamline EU decision-making and make the bloc more accessible to its 450 million citizens. But opponents feared it would strip France of its sovereignty and generous social system and trigger an influx of cheap labor.

They feared the treaty would open the EU to unfettered free-market capitalism, trampling on workers rights.

Treaty opponents chanting "We won!" gathered at Paris' Place de la Bastille, a symbol of rebellion where angry crowds in 1789 stormed the Bastille prison and sparked the French Revolution. Cars blared their horns and "no" campaigners thrust their arms into the air.

"This is a great victory," said Fabrice Savel, 38, from the working-class suburb of Aubervilliers, distributing posters that read: "No to a free-market Europe."

Ahmed Meguili, a militant leftist, noted the significance of the Bastille for the "no" camp's celebrations.

"In 1789, the revolutionaries freed the prisoners and frightened the king," he said. "This is the same thing. This is yet another divorce between the leaders and the people."

All 25 EU members must ratify the text for it to take effect as planned by Nov. 1, 2006. Nine already have done so: Austria, Hungary, Italy, Germany, Greece, Lithuania, Slovakia, Slovenia and Spain.

The constitution's main architect, former French President Valery Giscard d'Estaing, said countries that reject the treaty will be asked to vote again.

Chirac said the process of ratifying the treaty would continue in other EU countries.

"It is your sovereign decision, and I take note," Chirac said. "Make no mistake, France's decision inevitably creates a difficult context for the defense of our interests in Europe."

But Philippe de Villiers, a leading opponent, declared the treaty dead.

"There is no more constitution," he said. "It is necessary to reconstruct Europe on other foundations that don't currently exist."

De Villiers called on Chirac to resign — something the French leader had said he would not do — and called for parliament to be dissolved.

Jean-Marie Le Pen, the extreme-right leader who campaigned vigorously against the constitution, also called for Chirac's resignation. Chirac "wanted to gamble ... and he has lost," Le Pen said.

Chirac and other European leaders had said there was no fallback plan in the event of a French rejection. But voters did not believe that. Many, especially on the left, hoped their "no" vote would force the EU back to the drawing board and improve the 448-clause document.

Nicolas Sarkozy, the head of Chirac's ruling Union for a Popular Movement and a leading campaigner for the "yes" camp, called Sunday's defeat "a major political event."

Looking ahead to France's next general elections in 2007, Sarkozy said: "We must decide on an innovative, courageous and ambitious plan of action."

Chirac's popularity ratings have plummeted in recent weeks, and in his television address, the president said he would announce "my decisions concerning the government and its priorities" in coming days. There was widespread speculation that he would dump unpopular Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin.

interesting...................

Mari · #2 05-30-2005, 08:57 AM

The Dutch are going to vote this wednesday. Public polls say it 'll be a big NO from us as well. I can't make up my mind yet..

strandinthewind · #3 05-30-2005, 09:12 AM

I do not know what to think about this. The EU is a good idea on its face, but Europe has never really wanted to be united and WWI was fought essentially to break up the Germanic empire, which in a twisted way was what Hitler was fighting to regain, though Hitler had other horrid alternative motives. So, the thought of an EU is not without trepidation. But, in general, it sounds like a good idea.

As for France, they will never supoport it IMO because they still want to consider themselves a superpower to which the world must genuflect, when the fact of the matter is they have not been one since Napoleon, and even that was shortlived. Of course, the Fench could have hated it because Chirac wore a tie they considered in poor taste

This is a country whose rail workers went on strike because the they were horrified at the color the rail stations were painted

bretonbanquet · #4 05-30-2005, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

As for France, they will never supoport it IMO because they still want to consider themselves a superpower to which the world must genuflect, when the fact of the matter is they have not been one since Napoleon, and even that was shortlived.

I don't think that's true, and without wishing to be disrespectful, I think this is a commonly-held view of the French in several countries like the US and the UK. I've been to France a zillion times and they are just very independent-minded people (bloody-minded?) and many of them clearly feel that European integration is fantastic up to a point, beyond which it gets in the way of how individual countries want to run themselves. I believe many people in the UK feel that way too, and should we get a referendum here it would go the same way.

Having said that, Mr Blair has effectively admitted that if the UK said 'no' in a referendum we would have more referendums until we said 'yes', then there'd be no more referendums...

Mari · #5 05-30-2005, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bretonbanquet

I don't think that's true, and without wishing to be disrespectful, I think this is a commonly-held view of the French in several countries like the US and the UK. I've been to France a zillion times and they are just very independent-minded people (bloody-minded?) and many of them clearly feel that European integration is fantastic up to a point, beyond which it gets in the way of how individual countries want to run themselves. I believe many people in the UK feel that way too, and should we get a referendum here it would go the same way.

Having said that, Mr Blair has effectively admitted that if the UK said 'no' in a referendum we would have more referendums until we said 'yes', then there'd be no more referendums...

It's funny (not really), a Dutch politician has said the same thing...

I guess I'm one of the many Europeans who feels like that, European integration could be a good thing up to a certain point. I'd certainly wouldn't want to loose some of the good things we have in our country like our social security and laws on discriminiation etc.
I'm also not so sure of the benifits of no economic borders... I've experienced it twice already that companies I work(ed) for went bankrupt or moved the factory to Poland because wages were less expensive there. And so many other companies up here in the north have closed down already

But this referendum hasn't got much to do with that, I guess

That's exactly the 'danger' of this referendum, people aren't voting on the constitution, they're voting to express their opinion on the EU on the whole.

bretonbanquet · #6 05-30-2005, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mari

That's exactly the 'danger' of this referendum, people aren't voting on the constitution, they're voting to express their opinion on the EU on the whole.

Exactly - I really don't think many people have actually read the constitution, but they vote based on their personal experiences and feelings. Especially when things happen like factories closing down and moving to Poland, putting people in western Europe out of work...

Mari · #7 05-30-2005, 10:27 AM

Well, and who would read a constitution? I've got some leaflets and official info (with the official texts), but it's pretty tough reading. And I do have some experience with reading texts like that back from when I studied sociology.
That's another point I've heard made, is this the kind of thing you should hold a referendum about.

strandinthewind · #8 05-30-2005, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bretonbanquet

I don't think that's true, and without wishing to be disrespectful, I think this is a commonly-held view of the French in several countries like the US and the UK. I've been to France a zillion times and they are just very independent-minded people (bloody-minded?) and many of them clearly feel that European integration is fantastic up to a point, beyond which it gets in the way of how individual countries want to run themselves. I believe many people in the UK feel that way too, and should we get a referendum here it would go the same way.

Having said that, Mr Blair has effectively admitted that if the UK said 'no' in a referendum we would have more referendums until we said 'yes', then there'd be no more referendums...

Oh don't get me wrong, I LOVE France and go there often. But, the French are supercillious and there kind of is no denying that. In fact, the Parisians are downright proud of it

They also want to be a global player, but have a history of not being able to do that, making a mess, and then needing a bailout. I mean can you say "Maginot Line" (sp.?)

But and again, I relly like France and the French

strandinthewind · #9 05-30-2005, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mari

Well, and who would read a constitution? I've got some leaflets and official info (with the official texts), but it's pretty tough reading. And I do have some experience with reading texts like that back from when I studied sociology.
That's another point I've heard made, is this the kind of thing you should hold a referendum about.

I, of course, have read it

For those interested:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2950276.stm

Hippocampus · #10 05-30-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

They also want to be a global player, but have a history of not being able to do that, making a mess, and then needing a bailout. I mean can you say "Maginot Line" (sp.?)

The Maginot Line suggests more failed military tactics than anything else. With the US and the USSR turning a blind eye to European affairs, France and UK had little choice BUT to declare war on Germany when Hitler invaded Poland. I don't see how that translates into a desire to become a "global player".

Hippocampus · #11 05-30-2005, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mari

That's exactly the 'danger' of this referendum, people aren't voting on the constitution, they're voting to express their opinion on the EU on the whole.

Actually in the case of France, the constitution was rejected more on the grounds of an impopular government than the EU question itself.

strandinthewind · #12 05-30-2005, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hippocampus

The Maginot Line suggests more failed military tactics than anything else. With the US and the USSR turning a blind eye to European affairs, France and UK had little choice BUT to declare war on Germany when Hitler invaded Poland. I don't see how that translates into a desire to become a "global player".

I agree they had no choice. But, at least GB exercised military superiority and actually fought for what they believed in and to save her citizens. France, on the other hand, essentially rolled over and let Hitler have his way them them, to the death of tens of thousands of French, esp. gays and jews. Here is an okay site about it http://www.sunderland.ac.uk/~os0tmc/occupied/final.htm - though a google on this topic reveals some hard to take stuff about how people seem just to hate jews to this day

But, my point about the ML was that since the defeat of Napolean, France has not been able to defend itself and must rely on us to help them. Yet, they act as if they are a world leader, when in truth, they cannot defend themselves, a position hardly supported by their arrogance and rank hypocrisy.

As for them desiring to be a Global Player, they already are because they are on the UN Security Council, which IMO is a position unsupported by their mostly irrelevant place in the military world.

Finally, I like France and go often. I just think their politics are insane and they are irrelevant in today's world save for their UN Security Council position.