Securing our borders

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Jason, it took me a day, but I just realized what you were saying

and MILITARY FORTS DO NOT A MISSION MAKE!!! back atcha!

GGIIIIIIIIRRRLLLLLLL - Your getting slow

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I am sorry - do we have Iraq's oil - did I miss that memo.?

I believe a Google search of Executive Order 13303 reveals your answer.
Thanks to Randi Rhodes for bringing this up on her show the other day just after we had finished talking about it.
Sometimes I think she's psychic.

[gldstwmn]

Executive Order
Executive Order Protecting the Development Fund for Iraq and Certain Other Property in Which Iraq Has An Interest



By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, as amended (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) (IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.), section 5 of the United Nations Participation Act, as amended (22 U.S.C. 287c) (UNPA), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,

I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, find that the threat of attachment or other judicial process against the Development Fund for Iraq, Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products, and interests therein, and proceeds, obligations, or any financial instruments of any nature whatsoever arising from or related to the sale or marketing thereof, and interests therein, obstructs the orderly reconstruction of Iraq, the restoration and maintenance of peace and security in the country, and the development of political, administrative, and economic institutions in Iraq. This situation constitutes an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat.

I hereby order:

Section 1. Unless licensed or otherwise authorized pursuant to this order, any attachment, judgment, decree, lien, execution, garnishment, or other judicial process is prohibited, and shall be deemed null and void, with respect to the following:

(a) the Development Fund for Iraq, and

(b) all Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products, and interests therein, and proceeds, obligations, or any financial instruments of any nature whatsoever arising from or related to the sale or marketing thereof, and interests therein, in which any foreign country or a national thereof has any interest, that are in the United States, that hereafter come within the United States, or that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of United States persons.

Sec. 2. (a) As of the effective date of this order, Executive Order 12722 of August 2, 1990, Executive Order 12724 of August 9, 1990, and Executive Order 13290 of March 20, 2003, shall not apply to the property and interests in property described in section 1 of this order.

(b) Nothing in this order is intended to affect the continued effectiveness of any rules, regulations, orders, licenses or other forms of administrative action issued, taken, or continued in effect heretofore or hereafter under Executive Orders 12722, 12724, or 13290, or under the authority of IEEPA or the UNPA, except as hereafter terminated, modified, or suspended by the issuing Federal agency and except as provided in section 2(a) of this order.

Sec. 3. For the purposes of this order:

(a) The term "person" means an individual or entity;

(b) The term "entity" means a partnership, association, trust, joint venture, corporation, group, subgroup, or other organization;

(c) The term "United States person" means any United States citizen, permanent resident alien, entity organized under the laws of the United States or any juris-diction within the United States (including foreign branches), or any person in the United States;

(d) The term "Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products" means any petroleum, petroleum products, or natural gas originating in Iraq, including any Iraqi-origin oil inventories, wherever located; and

(e) The term "Development Fund for Iraq" means the fund established on or about May 22, 2003, on the books of the Central Bank of Iraq, by the Administrator of the Coalition Provisional Authority responsible for the temporary governance of Iraq and all accounts held for the fund or for the Central Bank of Iraq in the name of the fund.

Sec. 4. (a) The Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense, is hereby authorized to take such actions, including the promulga-tion of rules and regulations, and to employ all powers granted to the President by IEEPA and the UNPA as may be necessary to carry out the purposes of this order. The Secretary of the Treasury may redelegate any of these functions to other officers and agencies of the United States Government. All agencies of the United States Government are hereby directed to take all appropriate measures within their statutory authority to carry out the provisions of this order.

(b) Nothing contained in this order shall relieve a person from any requirement to obtain a license or other authorization in compliance with applicable laws and regulations.

Sec. 5. This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right, benefit, or privilege, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by a party against the United States, its departments, agencies, entities, officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

Sec. 6. This order shall be transmitted to the Congress and published in the Federal Register.

GEORGE W. BUSH
THE WHITE HOUSE,
May 22, 2003.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Tell that to the Tsunami victims and every other person the US has helped over the last few decades. Tell that Europe which without our help and lives they would be saluting to some faction of Hitler. Tell that to the African nations we help feed.

Tell it all to me. Living in Southern California where emergency rooms are closing relentlessly. The hospitals are going bankrupt mostly thanks to uninsured illegal immigrants to whom they cannot deny care.

BTW, I employ no illegal immigrants as maids, pool guys, or gardeners.

In case anyone wants to inform me that we are ALL immigrants, my mother was an immigrant from Germany in 1952, and yes, she bothered to get a green card.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Lux

I don't understand the extent of immigration problems over there but I know that here, it's not a matter of some not being bothered. That's an absurd thought, atleast in terms of us over here. I'm guessing it's largely different there.

It's true, it really is a ginormous "problem". It's really unfortunate, because, of course, one's inclination is to allow immigrants in. But the sheer numbers are daunting, from Mexico, and from Asia. I'm very liberal, (very) but I struggle with this issue. I, personally, think California is officially "full". I don't do this from anti mexican or asian sentiments, I do this from pro environment sentiments. We have some of the most astounding wildlife/nature stuff, and I really don't want that stuff to be filled up with humans. Plus, we have a good bit of farmland. Of course, I don't want to deny anyone "a better life" or anything (although I question whether the freedom of conspicuous consumption and rampant capitalistic acquirement are "better"), and I don't want to deny anyone health care or anything, but honestly.... I don't think everyone should be having so many kids, and wanting to move somewhere where they can have "great" things we have to offer. Which is mainly the possibility of conspicuous consumption, and things to distract you from what life is really about, and what's really important. Did that make sense? Again, I am in a moral quandry about immigration, but generally I am against it, although I understand why people want to come here. To conclude - I think California is full, and I want to preserve spaces without humans in them. OK.

[irishgrl]

I can tell you that from a Public Assistance standpoint, California has been "full" for some time. the Average caseload for Eligibility Workers is over 750 EACH MONTH and some go OVER 1000!! Think about that! Our county isnt wealthy enough to hire enough workers to handle this caseload, and the amount of work is overwhelming. California has always been a magnet for people ever since the days of the goldrush. Many enjoy the weather or the scenery but we also have one of the most generous social service programs in the US. And, because our county has very LITTLE to recommend it in terms of actual work (no industry no factories, just a University and supporting services) we have an explosion of needy people. I myself deal with the Homeless and disabled population mainly. I tell you it is tragic to see the state these people live in. Our shelters are FULL and funds from other aid agencies are always depleted. Its a sad state of affairs. I know that many of our bi-lingual (hispanic) Eligibility workers have to deal with illegal aliens daily. Interestingly, the Hmong population has no such problem getting documentation when (or before) they enter this country. They network amongst themselves to ensure they have the details worked out. and their young people almost ALWAYS go to college, which is NOT the case with other minorities. IMO the illegal aliens are utilizing services over here to have their babies in CLEAN hospitals and put their kids in decent schools. They send a portion of their wages back home to family in Mexico (primarily) so our dollars are slipping away and not being put back into the economy. Its disgraceful.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Lux

I get what you're saying up until the last bit. It's disgraceful to, as you say, want to access better health and education and generally a better standard of living for their children?

(how did I know you would find something to pick at?) I believe my meaning was clear, taken as a whole, but to clarify for you:

the disgrace is coming over illegally, using our system, accessing our facilities, sending dollars OUTSIDE the country instead of recirculating them back into the economy that is supporting them. The disgrace is that these illegals are flooding the system to such a point that the people that are here LEGALLY are not being served in a timely manner, and some are not served at ALL due to lack of funds in some programs. The disgrace is that these people CHOOSE to do all of this illegally when obviously it is not difficult to get LEGAL access. These illegals, by their sheer numbers, are squeezing out persons the system/economy was MEANT to serve. If they want to benefit from what this country has, let them come over LEGALLY.


I think its high time we closed our borders, and tho I do not have all the info on the "minute men" movement, I can certainly see why this grassroots movement felt it needed to mobilize. Our border patrols are underfunded, understaffed and our borders are so extensive that they have gaping holes east to west.

[irishgrl]

its a gift.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Lux

I get what you're saying up until the last bit. It's disgraceful to, as you say, want to access better health and education and generally a better standard of living for their children?

Lux, if you got what I said, then my last sentence followed.

Personally, I believe you can ask a legit question (What do you mean "disgrace?") without twisting my meaning and then expecting me to justify YOUR take on my post. ("It's disgraceful to, as you say, want to access better health and education and generally a better standard of living for their children?") Your sentence is deliberately provocative and was NOT my point at all. Nobody begrudges children the best they deserve. My issue was with the PARENTS who are abusing our system/utilizing our services that they basically have no right to, but because we are a compassionate society/state, we have accomodated. These people are robbing the rest of us and OUR children.
period.

[tommer]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

using our system, accessing our facilities, sending dollars OUTSIDE the country instead of recirculating them back into the economy that is supporting them. .

irishgrl, i think that economically speaking, you are a little bit wrong there. immigrants (whether legal or illegal) always occupy the worst jobs in the market, those that the "old" population "rejects". their unemployment rate tends to be lower than in the general population, and their income doesn't get saved in the banks, it operates and boosts the whole economy. the money those ppl "send" overseas is really nothing much comparing to the sums that richer ppl "invests" in forign markets.
as a matter of fact, what halts the market is ppl who have too much money on their hands, more than they could ever spend; that's when money's being held back from the market, coz it gets saved instead of operating the wheels of the economy.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by Lux

I get what you're saying up until the last bit. It's disgraceful to, as you say, want to access better health and education and generally a better standard of living for their children?

I would say it is disgraceful to have children if you cannot provide for them in the manner you desire.

[amber]

Originally Posted by sparky

I would say it is disgraceful to have children if you cannot provide for them in the manner you desire.

I might say that, too. Well, maybe not disgraceful, but wholly unwise.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by tommer

irishgrl, i think that economically speaking, you are a little bit wrong there. immigrants (whether legal or illegal) always occupy the worst jobs in the market, those that the "old" population "rejects". their unemployment rate tends to be lower than in the general population, and their income doesn't get saved in the banks, it operates and boosts the whole economy. the money those ppl "send" overseas is really nothing much comparing to the sums that richer ppl "invests" in forign markets.
as a matter of fact, what halts the market is ppl who have too much money on their hands, more than they could ever spend; that's when money's being held back from the market, coz it gets saved instead of operating the wheels of the economy.

You are actually comparing apples and oranges: the dollars they are paid (whether fair or not--thats a different issue and Im not going there now) are NOT being recirculated into the economy if even a portion goes outside the borders. and, contrary to what you might think, it DOES add up. My point is, these folks come here illegally, dont pay taxes, dont cooperate with the rules/regulations and then send part of their earnings back home. Therefore, our economy IS bleeding. It may be a death of 1000 cuts, but its still not right. BTW: the LEGAL immigrants DO pay taxes, do recirculate their money, and in the case of the Hmongs, primarily send their money back "home" so that THOSE folks can ALSO come to America. Make no mistake, they have all their ducks in a row when they get here or soon after. They have agencies in place to facilitate the procural of alien cards, and temporary (later permanent)
residency status. They even go to school to learn how to write our alphabet, and can write their names (at the very least) when they get here.

Whether or not rich people are also to blame is in fact a different issue.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by amber

I might say that, too. Well, maybe not disgraceful, but wholly unwise.

How about Idiotic ? Thoughtless ? Myopic ?

[amber]

Originally Posted by sparky

How about Idiotic ? Thoughtless ? Myopic ?

Yes, perhaps. I'm sad that a lot of people's religious beliefs prohibit birth control. It's really lame, I think. My mom had me when not in a good situation, though - so...I feel a bit hypocritical. But then, that's her, not me! Course, she only had me.