What religon/belief......

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Hm...had to step away from the Ledge for a while at work...but I really enjoyed these last few posts....I agree with you and Jason....good stuff being said...

I realize that there are people who have a real disdain for religion - any religion....and I totally understand that there are some wacked out Christians (and members of other religions) around...and they're going around giving us a bad name....but that exists in any group.

I've said that before though....but it's true - I've met some mean and hateful atheists...I don't hate ALL atheists or atheism as a result

I think saying all Christians are zealots is the same as saying all black people steal. It is a stereotype based on the actions of some small part of a class of people or race.

Even though I know he knows this, I refered to Diss' previous comments in another thread not with derision but solely as matter of fact. I brought it up as an indication of why I thought he was at times narrowminded about religion. I see what I interpreted as disdain for all religion (which he has refuted) as being narrowminded. That is all I was saying.

on edit - also organized religion has caused most of the great joy and simultaneously most of the greatest sorrow in the world and this yin and yang if you will exists to this day. So, it is quite understandable when people have nothing but contempt for religion. I do not, however, have such conempt.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

that is not the same thing as shoving their God down your throat

It is to me. Love your God. Pray to Him. Worship Him. But don't bring him up to me because I don't want to hear it in my life when I'm conversing with someone. Someone bringing up their God to me is just as disrespectful as me talking badly about Him and your religion.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by dissention

It is to me. Love your God. Pray to Him. Worship Him. But don't bring him up to me because I don't want to hear it in my life when I'm conversing with someone.

Then why don't you afford the same respect to others? I don't want to hear people bashing my religion and making fun of the names God and Jesus...?

By voicing what I believe - I'm not trying to shove it down anyone's throat...

I really don't get what is SO offensive about someone saying, "I believe it God"

Or even the word, "God" or anything....if you don't like it then why not ignore it rather than putting people's views and beliefs down?

[Vianna]

I am no organized religion. I believe in God but not the Christian view of him or the Jewish view of him or the Muslim view of him etc. Religions try to put God in a box and describe him. If he can be described he isn't God. I love this little jingle I read in a play called JB by Archibald MacLeish:

If God is God he is not good
If God is good he is not God
Take the even, take the odd
I wiould not sleep here if I could
Except for the little green leaves in the woode
And the wind on the water..

Organized religions also tend to produce fanatics-another reason I want nothing to do with them.

As for your loved ones who die-to you they will never be exactly dead because of your memories of them.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

It is to me. Love your God. Pray to Him. Worship Him. But don't bring him up to me because I don't want to hear it in my life when I'm conversing with someone. Someone bringing up their God to me is just as disrespectful as me talking badly about Him and your religion.

Well, you can think that, but 99.9% of the people in the world probably do not. I mean you have called people "evil" in our discussions here. The use of the word "evil" could be construed under your def. as shoving religion down people's throats because evil is an inherently religious word. And - as I have often said, your disdain for God appears only to be toward Christianity and perhaps the Jewish faith. You never clam Buddahists, Hinduists, etc.

Also, your statement that the mere mention of the word God brings you glee in rudely asserting your disdain is hardly having an open mind I mean no one deserves to get that just for mentioning something

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, you can think that, but 99.9% of the people in the world probably do not. I mean you have called people "evil" in our discussions here. The use of the word "evil" could be construed under your def. as shoving religion down people's throats because evil is an inherently religious word. And - as I have often said, your disdain for God appears only to be toward Christianity and perhaps the Jewish faith. You never clam Buddahists, Hinduists, etc.

Oh well. I suppose I come off too strongly and could use better words, but I certainly don't feel any differently.

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Also, your statement that the mere mention of the word God brings you glee in rudely asserting your disdain is hardly having an open mind I mean no one deserves to get that just for mentioning something

I said "there are times."

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by dissention

It is to me. Love your God. Pray to Him. Worship Him. But don't bring him up to me because I don't want to hear it in my life when I'm conversing with someone. Someone bringing up their God to me is just as disrespectful as me talking badly about Him and your religion.

Wow. So no one is to speak of God in your presence or it's disrespectful to you? I had no idea you were that intolerant. I mean you've said before you fear and loathe religion and religious people, which is certainly not an unusual attitude - it's one many people share. But few are this extreme! I truly am amazed.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by dissention

Oh well. I suppose I come off too strongly and could use better words, but I certainly don't feel any differently.

To say that you don't want to hear about anyone's beliefs that differ from your own is insensitive to me in some situations, but more so impractical than anything else. If one of your friend's had a death in his or her family and said something to you like "I hope God is taking care of him or her" and is obviously grieving, are you going to say, "Yeah right! There is no god, and please don't bring that crap up again."

After a guy broke into my house and came into my bedroom last summer, I had to hear all kinds of religious phrases coming from people when it was all over. One of my friends kept saying, "Thank God he didn't hurt you." "Thank God you're okay" like, fifty times. I didn't stop and say, "Wait a minute, I don't want to hear that because I don't even really believe in god."

From your last post, I'm getting that you wouldn't say those things, either. But you say you don't feel any differently. Does that mean you'd be thinking the things I said above rather than saying them? It seems to me like having that much disdain for the concept of a supreme being and carrying that around all the time can get tiring when dealing with people. There are just too many people out there who think, at the very least, that there is some possibility there's a god. And people will inevitably talk about it. It's pretty difficult to avoid unless you just stay at home.

EDIT: And I also want to add, though, as I said earlier, I don't know why I decided to go through this again tonight! There are simply "too many flowers to cut down," and I suck at it, anyway. But do you really want to close your mind so much that you won't allow anyone to even mention god, just to discuss it, not to try to push you or win you over, just to discuss it? You don't know for a fact that there is no god. I think it's a topic worth exploring, discussing, debating, etc.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

"I hope God is taking care of him or her" and is obviously grieving, are you going to say, "Yeah right! There is no god, and please don't bring that crap up again."

I'm sorry -that, for some reason, just cracked me up! Can you imagine? That would be so sad....

Anyway - just to sort of add to your point - I think that the term "god" has also become SO common place and some people use it not even realizing there is a religious connotation...it's become just a phrase to them...

Examples: "god bless you" when someone sneezes, "oh god " when something is absurd or whatever, "thank god" -when something has a good outcome - though not everyone really actually means, "Thank God"

Does that make sense? I think another great example is, "god dammit"

I think that even non-religious folks use these phrases because they've become so common....just a thought

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

I'm sorry -that, for some reason, just cracked me up! Can you imagine? That would be so sad....

Yeah, wouldn't that be the ideal time to launch into a spiel about how you think anything spiritual is the biggest load of horse**** ever?

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

I'm sorry -that, for some reason, just cracked me up! Can you imagine? That would be so sad....

Anyway - just to sort of add to your point - I think that the term "god" has also become SO common place and some people use it not even realizing there is a religious connotation...it's become just a phrase to them...

Examples: "god bless you" when someone sneezes, "oh god " when something is absurd or whatever, "thank god" -when something has a good outcome - though not everyone really actually means, "Thank God"

Does that make sense? I think another great example is, "god dammit"

I think that even non-religious folks use these phrases because they've become so common....just a thought

Not to speak for dissention, but my impression is that he's speaking of genuine religious expression and not the commonplaces such as the above which, you're right, have little to no religious meaning for many people nowadays.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Not to speak for dissention, but my impression is that he's speaking of genuine religious expression and not the commonplaces such as the above which, you're right, have little to no religious meaning for many people nowadays.

I see that - I was just sort of writing what Hillary's post brought to my mind...you can't get away from it...."god" I mean - though you're right, I think, that Diss was talking about the actually religion-speak God that people refer to...

[ShamHy89]

I'm a Catholic.

A quote: "Preach the gospel at all times, and if necessary use words" - I've always liked that one

St. Francis. What a guy.

Shamus

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by Lux

Really? I would have thought that the ability to cope by oneself is not a sign of weakness. I would have thought that the need to look to some greater plan as a comfort would be weaker, but then I'm arrogant so perhaps my view is slanted.

But you have music idols right? The mechanism isn't that different, it's only a display of promises and dreams on a smaller scale. It's like to be an Apollon's believer. To have a real and honest spiritual faith is just more engaging. And this comes from an agnostic.

Romy

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by Lux

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Isn't that more a matter of occupying time?

That would be to listen to music or watching a movie without giving a second thought to a musician or an actor except saying " oh yes, he/she' s great". When you idolize someone (buying all his/her records, collecting things about her/him talking of him/her constantly, going to his/her concerts, trying to meet him/her, etc) you project on him/her much of your expectations and that's a very comfortable and easily marketable subform of belief, IMO. It makes the world more enjoyable , but the basic need is the same, I think.


Romy