Democrats Say Rice Misled About Iraq War

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

I think few non-base people voted for Bush. He added to his base by reaching out to the fundies.

I submit that there are not 60,608,582 in the far right base. Bush clearly picked up votes from D's and moderates. Interestingly, Kerry picked up votes from disgruntled moderates as well.

I know many people who are not really extremist on the right that voted for W because Kerry gave them no alternative. That is not W's base.

But, to be sure, W's base was important to him as was Kerry's.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by ShangriLaTroubl

I agree you'd be surprised at the amount of republicans who do not feel Bush is in the far right wing...as well as independents and undecideds...

An overwhelming amount of ppl voted for Bush because he's someone they'd like to have a BBQ with..not because he's good at what he does

Chris

Thanks for saying what I was trying to say - only in a better way!!!

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

True - but it is not just his base that is electing him. That other significant portion sees him as a moderate. I think people do not care if religion is in the govt., they think aborition is wrong, and they really deep down hate gay people or at least do not think they should dare to have the same rights as straight people. While I think these issues are important, to most they are not even worth considering unless the other gut is trying to advance them Thus, I think the non-base people that voted for W at least are willing to buy into he is a uniter and the evil D's are the dividers. Butm even so, Kerry, who played it straight to the middle, almost won

If they see Bush as a moderate then I've got some beach front property in Florida to sell them. I vote based on issues so they matter to me, but you may be right about others. I think people bought into the fearmongering, they believe that this president will protect them. Also, those making 200k plus get to keep more of their money so they'll vote for him. I don't think he gained people based on appearing moderate. Also the military people voted for him, them and their families. Oh I'm getting ill...

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Those are the people who should be disenfranchised.

thank you Anne Coulter

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I submit that there are not 60,608,582 in the far right base. Bush clearly picked up votes from D's and moderates. Interestingly, Kerry picked up votes from disgruntled moderates as well.

I know many people who are not really extremist on the right that voted for W because Kerry gave them no alternative. That is not W's base.

But, to be sure, W's base was important to him as was Kerry's.

While that surely would be a stretch to say 60 million are his base, I would venture out and say that he added millions upon millions to his base after 9/11. And he got people to vote based on religious issues alone, and they are most definitely his base.

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I submit that there are not 60,608,582 in the far right base. Bush clearly picked up votes from D's and moderates. Interestingly, Kerry picked up votes from disgruntled moderates as well.

I know many people who are not really extremist on the right that voted for W because Kerry gave them no alternative. That is not W's base.

But, to be sure, W's base was important to him as was Kerry's.

The leftovers who did not vote for W because of gay marriage voted for him because of terrorism. He may have picked up some moderates, but I'd bet money they already had right-leanings.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

The leftovers who did not vote for W because of gay marriage voted for him because of terrorism. He may have picked up some moderates, but I'd bet money they already had right-leanings.

I think I am taking issue with your painting them as right leanings, etc. - I think gay marriage is a far left issue. The votes in Congress and in America support me here. Civil Unions are generally the more moderate approach.

W won on terrorism because Kerry never provided them with an alternative nor could he really beause he voted for the war in Iraq and had a long haekish history in dealing with Iraq. I think Kerry thought people were so mad at W for going into Iraq that they would flock to him based on his past history as a decorated soldier who did not shirk his duty like W. He was wrong. He needed a concrete plan in five words or less and he never found one

But, even so, Kerry knew he had to woo these people with the right leaning and he failed to do so. The only way to woo them is to play to the middle becuase they sure are not going to be impressed by hard left issues.

Finally, Kerry was and is seen as an elitist. W is not even though W's family is.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

W won on terrorism because Kerry never provided them with an alternative nor could he really beause he voted for the war in Iraq and had a long haekish history in dealing with Iraq. I think Kerry thought people were so mad at W for going into Iraq that they would flock to him based on his past history as a decorated soldier who did not shirk his duty like W. He was wrong. He needed a concrete plan in five words or less and he never found one

Finally, Kerry was and is seen as an elitist. W is not even though W's family is.

I agree with all of that. Gimme a cookie.

But, again, take anyone from Massachusetts or New York, plop them down into some random southern state, and show me someone who doesn't view said person as a fancy-pants elitist.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

While that surely would be a stretch to say 60 million are his base, I would venture out and say that he added millions upon millions to his base after 9/11. And he got people to vote based on religious issues alone, and they are most definitely his base.

Well, not all religious people are his base. I am religious and I am not his base. I know many like me. And - Kerry was religious as well. So was Clinton. Granted they were not zealots like W - but they often cited God.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But, even so, Kerry knew he had to woo these people with the right leaning and he failed to do so. The only way to woo them is to play to the middle becuase they sure are not going to be impressed by hard left issues.

Which then alienated Kerry's base and kept progressives from voting for him.

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think I am taking issue with your painting them as right leanings, etc. - I think gay marriage is a far left issue. The votes in Congress and in America support me here. Civil Unions are generally the more moderate approach.

W won on terrorism because Kerry never provided them with an alternative nor could he really beause he voted for the war in Iraq and had a long haekish history in dealing with Iraq. I think Kerry thought people were so mad at W for going into Iraq that they would flock to him based on his past history as a decorated soldier who did not shirk his duty like W. He was wrong. He needed a concrete plan in five words or less and he never found one

But, even so, Kerry knew he had to woo these people with the right leaning and he failed to do so. The only way to woo them is to play to the middle becuase they sure are not going to be impressed by hard left issues.

Finally, Kerry was and is seen as an elitist. W is not even though W's family is.

No gay marriage = conservative
Civil Unions/no Amendment = moderate
gay marriage = liberal

If people voted for no gay marriage, I think it's safe to bet they have right leanings.

While you're correct in saying that right now Americans don't favor gay marriage, that landscape is changing. I also think there's many who disapprove of the Amendment, regardless of their position.

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, not all religious people are his base. I am religious and I am not his base. I know many like me. And - Kerry was religious as well. So was Clinton. Granted they were not zealots like W - but they often cited God.

Not all religious people are his base for sure. But most of his base is religious.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

I agree with all of that. Gimme a cookie.

But, again, take anyone from Massachusetts or New York, plop them down into some random southern state, and show me someone who doesn't view said person as a fancy-pants elitist.

And that is why Clinton won twice. Interestingly, even as an elitist portrayed as having no agenda, Kerry still got 57,288,974 or 48% of the official vote - that is pretty good.

On top of all of this, more people votes than ever before.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, not all religious people are his base. I am religious and I am not his base. I know many like me. And - Kerry was religious as well. So was Clinton. Granted they were not zealots like W - but they often cited God.

Kerry is as religious as my left testicle, dear. I don't know a single person who bought that religious act of his. Honestly.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Which then alienated Kerry's base and kept progressives from voting for him.

I diagree and the numbers for the other parties do not support that. I think almost all progressives knew that it was important to vote for Kerry no matter the cost to their pride because W was and is FAR worse. Didn;t you do that?