Hero or Criminal?

[ShangriLaTroubl]

They were discussing this on MSNBC tonight, and there were indeed a lot of intense arguments. I would like to know your opinions on this. Ok, so here is the main story if you have not already heard :

A man, last name O'Neal, is attacked at home. O'Neal is a black single father of daughters in an upscale neighborhood. A few intruders come into his home with masks on, threaten to rape his daughters if he does not give them his money. They take the $1500 he had in his wallet, and all of credit cards and all. They are screaming profanities at him, threatening the life of him and his daughters. They are being held at gun point. The intruders leave his home after they take his belongings, and Mr. O'Neal tells his daughters to lock the house and call 9-1-1. He runs to his SUV and chases down the criminals to get their tag number, since they were disquised and he knew he would not be able to discribe this to the police. While chasing down the criminals who threatened he and his family, and is shot at by the criminals...busting his windshield, and causing an accident (he ducked under the dash), and rammed them... Somehow in the middle of the accident one of the criminals leaves the vehicle after it is hit, and is ran over to my understanding by O'Neal.
Now some are saying O'Neal should be prosecuted for taking the law into his own hands. They are saying the rights of the thugs should be protected. They say that New Jersey law states that when he knew his life was threatened it was his duty as a citizen to retreat, not put himself into more possible harm. It is of course a fine line of self defense. Some say it was no longer self defense once O'Neal actually persued the criminals. Even though had he not pursued them, likely the criminals would have never been caught and his life would be in even more danger.
A man protects his family, and is now facing possible prosecution? Then there was one man, a police officer on MSNBC who was saying that racism played a role in this.. lol..which is funny since O'Neal was black, the criminals were black, and the cop claiming racism is black. Whatever!
Anyway, what do you all think about this? If New Jersey law does say this is illegal for O'Neal or anyone to pursue a criminal, do you think is an ok law? Forget the fact that someone was killed (according to O'Neal by accident), should it be illegal to pursue a criminal at all?

Have at it folks.

Chris

[gldstwmn]

If he would have shot them or injured them in the home, there would be no charges pressed.
He cannot argue self defense once he leaves the home and pursues the criminals. So yes, he broke the law and will probably be prosecuted.

[sara1998]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

If he would have shot them or injured them in the home, there would be no charges pressed.

Not necessarily. I've heard of incidents where robbers sued homeowners because they were breaking into their home, and the homeowners kicked their ass, and the robbers filed charges against them for battery. The law is so f*cked.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Well he could be prosecuted, although I do not know that any credible prosecutor would take on a case like this, if they want a career. It's a fine line about what you are allowed to do after your are victimized. Are you required by law to stay in your home? Are you not allowed to get into your vehicle and drive?

It's crazy to me. Criminals have way too many priveleges. In some states this man would have been given a medal of honor by the Governor. It's happened in Florida.
I think there is nothing wrong with trying to get a tag number of someone once they have attacked you or your family. It's too bad he didn't kill all the bastard criminals in my opinion.

Chris

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by ShangriLaTroubl

It's a fine line about what you are allowed to do after your are victimized. Are you required by law to stay in your home? Are you not allowed to get into your vehicle and drive?

Certainly. But he took the law into his own hands. The only time you can do that is if you are acting in your own defense. In this case, once they left his home, they were no longer threatening his life.

Originally Posted by ShangriLaTroubl

In some states this man would have been given a medal of honor by the Governor. It's happened in Florida.

Florida. Governor. I think you just answered your own question.

Originally Posted by ShangriLaTroubl

I think there is nothing wrong with trying to get a tag number of someone once they have attacked you or your family.
Chris

What about the innocent citizens who may have been put in danger in the ensuing chase?

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by sara1998

Not necessarily. I've heard of incidents where robbers sued homeowners because they were breaking into their home, and the homeowners kicked their ass, and the robbers filed charges against them for battery. The law is so f*cked.

Suing someone is civil. I'm talking criminal. Any cop that allows a robber to press battery charges should be fired.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Certainly. But he took the law into his own hands. The only time you can do that is if you are acting in your own defense. In this case, once they left his home, they were no longer threatening his life.

I didn't know that was illegal though. Whatever happened to citizens arrest?
As a father he did what he thought he should do. He knew if he didn't get their tag number they would likely never be caught. He acted out of adrenaline, whatever you want to call it..this man is no criminal

Chris

[Sorcerer386]

As a huge libertarian, you'd think I would side with the criminals. But the one conservative bone in my body says that once someone commits a crime, all rights go out the window. Especially when it comes to robbery. There is nothing more I hate in the world than a thief. They disgust me to no end. A few times we've caught shoplifters in the store, and each time I just want to smash any self-worth they have left into the ground. There even is a little libtertarian in my thinking because who the Hell do the police and government think they are to prosecute someone for "taking the law into his own hands"? This guy took away some scum of the Earth...good for him I say.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by ShangriLaTroubl

I didn't know that was illegal though. Whatever happened to citizens arrest?
Chris

Citizens arrest is one thing, vehicular homicide is quite another.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Call it my conservative bone, call it whatever--I agree..criminals shouldn't be placed above those they victimize. It's a fine line, but when we are giving prisoners all these priveleges, and robbers shouldn't be chased down...something isn't right

Chris

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Citizens arrest is one thing, vehicular homicide is quite another.

Right, so the thing is though the people are saying it was illegal for him to chase them down period even if he had not killed a man in doing that. If someone shoots at me, and busts my window, I will do my best to run them over..you better believe. I do not care.

Chris

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by ShangriLaTroubl

Right, so the thing is though the people are saying it was illegal for him to chase them down period even if he had not killed a man in doing that. If someone shoots at me, and busts my window, I will do my best to run them over..you better believe. I do not care.

Chris

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I don't see two wrongs in there at all. Let's see, what did he do wrong?

He drove down a street and jotted someone's tag number down. He also accidentally killed a man who shot at him, and busted his windshield out.

Nothing wrong there in my opinion

Chris

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by ShangriLaTroubl

I don't see two wrongs in there at all. Let's see, what did he do wrong?

He drove down a street and jotted someone's tag number down. He also accidentally killed a man who shot at him, and busted his windshield out.

Nothing wrong there in my opinion

Chris

"accidentally killed a man..." That part right there is a problem. And while you are certainly entitled to your opinion, it doesn't make it any less illegal.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

"accidentally killed a man..." That part right there is a problem. And while you are certainly entitled to your opinion, it doesn't make it any less illegal.

After someone shoots at you, is it still illegal to kill that person?

Chris