Kerry refused to take Clinton's antigay advice

[dissention]

http://www.advocate.com/new_news.asp...85&sd=11/05/04
Kerry refused to take Clinton's antigay advice

A new report from inside the John Kerry campaign suggests that in the final weeks of the campagin former president Bill Clinton advised Kerry to come out in favor of ballot measures that wrote antigay marriage discimination into the constitutions of 11 states. According to the latest issue of Newsweek, "Looking for a way to pick up swing voters in the red states, former president Bill Clinton, in a phone call with Kerry, urged the senator to back local bans on gay marriage. Kerry respectfully listened, then told his aides, 'I'm not going to ever do that.'"

[gldstwmn]

I think that report is complete and utter bull****.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I think that report is complete and utter bull****.

I do, too, but if it is true, I'm glad Kerry didn't take the advice.

[DeeGeMe]

Me too. I'd rather be defeated on principle. We are right. They are WRONG.

[Jason T.]

Well, I think it may very well be true. You have to remember that Clinton was just giving him advice, and since quite a few people in States like Ohio voted on so-called "moral issues," it does come to reason that it was good advice at that. I'm sure Clinton didn't approve of the idea either (not that I know the man...I'm just assuming).

I personally think it is awesome that John Kerry didn't take the advice. Not only because I'm against the same-sex marriage ban myself, but because it just once again shows what kind of person he is. It also is making me more depressed that we don't have someone like that in office right now.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Jason T.

Well, I think it may very well be true. You have to remember that Clinton was just giving him advice, and since quite a few people in States like Ohio voted on so-called "moral issues," it does come to reason that it was good advice at that. I'm sure Clinton didn't approve of the idea either (not that I know the man...I'm just assuming).

I personally think it is awesome that John Kerry didn't take the advice. Not only because I'm against the same-sex marriage ban myself, but because it just once again shows what kind of person he is. It also is making me more depressed that we don't have someone like that in office right now.

Me, too, i think he probably said that. Bill is the ultimate Politician. Look what he did with gays in the military?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Jason T.

Well, I think it may very well be true. You have to remember that Clinton was just giving him advice, and since quite a few people in States like Ohio voted on so-called "moral issues," it does come to reason that it was good advice at that. I'm sure Clinton didn't approve of the idea either (not that I know the man...I'm just assuming).

I personally think it is awesome that John Kerry didn't take the advice. Not only because I'm against the same-sex marriage ban myself, but because it just once again shows what kind of person he is. It also is making me more depressed that we don't have someone like that in office right now.

I agree

With all due respect to Bill Clinton because I'd take his lying ass back in a second over the creep we have now , but Clinton was no huge friend to the gay community and at least twice sold them down the river for political gain.

First, he flat out promised to end the ban on gays in the military. He called the ban immoral and an insult to those willing to die for their country. Despite the strong election circuit rhetoric, Clinton then caved in and negotiated the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy. Many think he did this in an effort not to help gay service people (which it no question obliquely did) - but to gain favor with his rivals, which were eager to shut him down in this, which was one of his first agenda items. It was, if you will, a sacrificial lamb and the people he sacrificed were going to always vote D anyway because the R's seemingly want to shove them back into the closet or worse Then, in his autobiography, he denounces the policy

Here are some sites on it:

http://www.california.com/~rathbone/links003.htm

http://www.hrc.org/Content/Navigatio...Fact_Sheet.htm


Next, unlike Kerry, Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), which says no state is compelled to recognize and marriage from any other state that is not the union of one man and one woman. There is no getting around the sell out factor on that one.

Here are some sites on it:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9609/10/gay.marriage/

http://www.stonewalldemocrats.org/gillespie.html

But Clinton was I readily admit very smart in this. Again, who are gay people going to vote for despite this abuse. They certainly are not going to vote for W

[GateandGarden]

I hate to think this is true, though I know it very well could be, knowing what happened with the DOMA and "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," but it pains me to think that Clinton would be so hateful to the gay community. I've always been under the impression that he isn't a bad guy, and I think it's incredibly reprehensible to treat the gay community this way. (Or any minority, for that matter). I want to believe that this isn't true because of that. If it is, then I'm obviously happy that Kerry refused to take that advice and I feel better about him, though it's depressing because he's not our president.

Hillary

[amber]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I hate to think this is true, though I know it very well could be, knowing what happened with the DOMA and "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," but it pains me to think that Clinton would be so hateful to the gay community. I've always been under the impression that he isn't a bad guy, and I think it's incredibly reprehensible to treat the gay community this way. (Or any minority, for that matter). I want to believe that this isn't true because of that. If it is, then I'm obviously happy that Kerry refused to take that advice and I feel better about him, though it's depressing because he's not our president.

Hillary

He may be a great guy, but i think, above all else, he is a POLITICIAN.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I hate to think this is true, though I know it very well could be, knowing what happened with the DOMA and "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," but it pains me to think that Clinton would be so hateful to the gay community. I've always been under the impression that he isn't a bad guy, and I think it's incredibly reprehensible to treat the gay community this way. (Or any minority, for that matter). I want to believe that this isn't true because of that. If it is, then I'm obviously happy that Kerry refused to take that advice and I feel better about him, though it's depressing because he's not our president.

Hillary

Clinton was a 100% political creature. I willingly admit Clinton was better for the gay community than any R ever in the history of politics. But, he saw and apprently still sees the gay vote as an almost absolute, though a very small percentage of gay people somewhat inexplicably vote R. Also, Clinton is not alone here. Almost all politicians take the sure thing for granted. Up until recently, the D's took the black vote for granted So, I do not per se fault Clinton for it, but I wish he had not done it. And, again, I'd take his lying and philandering ass back in a New York minute.

[amber]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Clinton was a 100% political creature. I willingly admit Clinton was better for the gay community than any R ever in the history of politics. But, he saw and apprently still sees the gay vote as an almost absolute, though a very small percentage of gay people somewhat inexplicably vote R. Also, Clinton is not alone here. Almost all politicians take the sure thing for granted. Up until recently, the D's took the black vote for granted So, I do not per se fault Clinton for it, but I wish he had not done it. And, again, I'd take his lying and philandering ass back in a New York minute.

Ha, "politicians" are why i always love Jimmy Carter. But that guy couldn't get **** done. But didn't he have a repub congress?

[DeeGeMe]

Bill is a master politician. He is ELVIS! He knows what to do and what to say and how to say it and he does it with great ease. I've heard him described, more than once, as the most gifted politician of his generation. And I think that may have been understating it. I don't think he personally believed that gay marriage was wrong, but he understood, being from the South, being a Southern Baptist, how big an issue this was to the Born-agains and knew, instinctively what those folks wanted a presidential candidate to say about the issue, and he knew that wasn't what John Kerry was saying.

Now, don't get me wrong here. It's not that I don't think Bill Clinton could do no wrong--he is undeniably a great politican, but a flawed human being (aren't we all?). Count me in as one of the one's who'd take his lying ass back in a split second.

But don't get me wrong on this point either--I do not think Kerry was wrong for not taking Bill's advice--I admire him even more for it. But I can see where Bill was coming from on this and I understand why he made the suggestion (if it's true he did make that suggestion).

Let's think about this for a minute--say it's 1960 and the civil rights battle is still raging on. Would you want a presidential candidate to come out and say, "I'm against civil rights equality for blacks?" Think about the political candidates that are looked back on now favorably for standing up for the Civil Rights movement and think about the ones that aren't. Ultimately--who ultimately won, even if it might have led to their immediate political defeat at the time?

Legacy is an important thing to any politican, but especially to a president. I believe that history will look back on this current president's position on this issue and the use of gay marriage to "bait" the public as shameful--as shameful as we now think of the segregationists as being.

And while you're digesting that fact, think about this little bit of political history/irony: one of the most fervent opponents to any and all civil rights legislation was Strom Thurmond. Last year, it was finally officially made public that he had fathered a daughter with his family's black maid.
Wonder how many of the repug senators & congressmen who so vehemently oppose gay marriages specifically, and gays in general, are actually gay?

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by DeeGeMe

And while you're digesting that fact, think about this little bit of political history/irony: one of the most fervent opponents to any and all civil rights legislation was Strom Thurmond. Last year, it was finally officially made public that he had fathered a daughter with his family's black maid.
Wonder how many of the repug senators & congressmen who so vehemently oppose gay marriages specifically, and gays in general, are actually gay?

I've thought about that and it just blows my mind, to say the least. Of course, some of the most hateful homophobes are repressed homosexuals. It's not always true but it certainly is in some cases.

That whole post was very interesting.

Hillary

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by amber

He may be a great guy, but i think, above all else, he is a POLITICIAN.

it's more like this:

He may be a great guy, but i think, above all else, he is from Ark-i-saw.

Brian "Ark-i-saw=Hillbillies" j.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by DeeGeMe

. . . Wonder how many of the repug senators & congressmen who so vehemently oppose gay marriages specifically, and gays in general, are actually gay?

Ditto for the D ones, because the DOMA passed with votes from both sides including Billy C. and the both the state and Federal marriage Amendments had D supporters as well. So, that sword cuts both ways Just though I'd take the fair and balanced approach lest people get the wrong impression that only the R's are opposed to homosexual rights