Capital Punishment

GateandGarden · #1 10-27-2004, 04:07 PM

I thought y'all might want to talk about this. Perhaps? It's on my mind since it's the other social issue I'm really passionate about in addition to gay marriage, and one of the few things I can safely say I'll never change my mind about--I am strongly opposed to it. I just found out that a good friend of mine supports it, and I can't help but be disturbed. I've known her for awhile and I never knew that she supported it because I make a point of not talking about it because it upsets me so much, more than the gay marriage issue, actually, and that one really affects me on a more personal level. (Whew--sorry about the run-on there!) So, I wanted to see what everyone had to say, and I'll bow out of the discussion after this initial post because I don't want to argue or offend anyone else. I can't trust myself to be mature, but I'd like to just read what others have to say.

Hillary

estranged4life · #2 10-27-2004, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I thought y'all might want to talk about this. Perhaps? It's on my mind since it's the other social issue I'm really passionate about in addition to gay marriage, and one of the few things I can safely say I'll never change my mind about--I am strongly opposed to it. I just found out that a good friend of mine supports it, and I can't help but be disturbed. I've known her for awhile and I never knew that she supported it because I make a point of not talking about it because it upsets me so much, more than the gay marriage issue, actually, and that one really affects me on a more personal level. (Whew--sorry about the run-on there!) So, I wanted to see what everyone had to say, and I'll bow out of the discussion after this initial post because I don't want to argue or offend anyone else. I can't trust myself to be mature, but I'd like to just read what others have to say.

Hillary

I have no opinion on Capital Punishment, But Tim McVeigh got what he deserved...Sadly anything that could have pointed to a larger conspiracy involving the OKC bombing went to the grave with McVeigh (Who waved his appeals and was put to death rather quickly...)

Brian j.

Gailh · #3 10-27-2004, 04:15 PM

Here in the UK we don't have capital punishment, although I think some people would like to see its return.

I am against it mainly because of the miscarriages of justice we have had here over the years.

There are several completely innocent people who would have lost their lives if we still had capital punishment.

As for gay marriage I'm not sure you could have a marriage as such but a legal recognition of a gay relationship would be fine by me. There have been some instances reported in the press here where a couple who have been together in a stable relationship for decades and if one of them becomes seriously ill the other has no say in their treatment or whether the life support machine could be switched off if that became necessary.

I think some people are against it because they think it makes a mockery of the institution of marriage. Well we straight people can do that all on our own thank you! Brittney Spears take a bow!

Gail

gldstwmn · #4 10-27-2004, 04:22 PM

Opposed.

DrummerDeanna · #5 10-27-2004, 04:38 PM

I have very mixed feelings on Capital Punishment...mostly because I haven't thought about it until pretty recently...

Mostly I feel very opposed to it - but as Brian brought up there are folk like McVeigh...who perpetrated a really heinous crime....but I don't know...killing someone in punishment for killing someone? no...I don't like that whole thing...

I remember hearing "an eye for an eye" a lot....and a good friend of mine brought this up - she said that it's NOT an eye for an eye - if it were...rapists would be raped, robbers would be robbed etc...I thought that was an interesting way to look at it...

Pretty much I just don't think it makes much sense to kill someone for killing someone..."it's wrong to kill...so we're gonna kill you..."

EnchantedSLN · #6 10-27-2004, 04:47 PM

Against it. IMO government sanctioned killing has a brutalizing effect on society that cancels out any deterrent value it could possibly have (if it has any to begin with; studies suggest that it doesn't.) Not to mention death penalty cases cost more in court appeals and administrative expenses than life sentences do. Plus, plenty of innocent people have already been put to death (hence the moratoriums in several states). I don't trust any government enough to give them that authority and hope they'll get it right "most of the time."

estranged4life · #7 10-27-2004, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnchantedSLN

Plus, plenty of innocent people have already been put to death (hence the moratoriums in several states). I don't trust any government enough to give them that authority and hope they'll get it right "most of the time."

that is one of the main ongoing cases happening in OKC, Which involves the former chief chemist who falsified records of several death penalty cases, Some of which turned out later that an innocent person was put to death due to her falsified records.

But as for McVeigh...Screw him, He was a soldier til the end who thought of those who died in the Murrah building as "Colateral", So I have no problem with his execution (At least Terry Nichols was spared the death penalty...But his case ended rather strangely. At least he is man enuff to FINALLY admit his involvement after being sentenced to life in a Federal facility.)

Brian j.

DeeGeMe · #8 10-27-2004, 05:28 PM

I'm opposed. For several reasons:

There have been many studies done which show that minorities, and the poor are much more likely to be given the death penalty than more affluent, non-minority criminals who have committed similar crimes. That in itself is just wrong-there shold be similar punishments for similar crimes. The difference is that white and wealthy criminals are often better able to afford better legal defense teams that either spare their lives or completly get them off the hook (O.J., anyone?).

In the past several years, thanks to DNA, many people who had spent decades on death row have been found to be innocent of the crimes. Most of these people shared two things in common: they were poor and they were minority members.

I live in South Carolina. This week marks the 10th anniversary of the Susan Smith incident where she drowned her two children so she could be single and gain the sympathy and attention of her ex-boyfriend. That was not a death penalty case here in South Carolina--and we like to give folks the death penalty here. If that wasn't a death penalty case, please tell me what should be???? Her stepfather had $$$$ and her family had influence and she didn't even receive a life sentence for her crimes!

Pee Wee Gaskins (so-called because he stood about 5'1" remains one of SC's most infamous criminals. He killed 9 people because he thought they deserved to die (gays, people who had been involved in an inter-racial relationship, the child that resulted from that inter-racial relationship, people who had screwed him over in business, etc.). He had his own little death penalty court going there without the benefit of a judge or jury.

Anyway, for none of these nine murders did Pee Wee receive the death penalty! What crime earned him the death penalty? Killing someone who was already on death row! Long story short--the son of a couple who had been murdered by a guy in a robbery gone wrong, hired Pee Wee to kill said robber/murderer because he felt the wheels of justice weren't moving fast enough to suit him. Pee Wee rigged up a homemade bomb (unbelievably, he had been made a trustee in the prison and somehow gained access to the materials) and blew the robber/murderer up. For that murder, South Carolina's most infamous murderer, finally received the death penalty! For killing someone who was already on death row. WTF????? Does that make sense to anyone?

I'd like to see the death penalty reserved strictly for those who commit acts of terrorism such as 9/11 and the Oklahoma City Bombings. I don't think that the death penalty serves as a deterrant for other criminals and I think it's much more severe punishment to have spend 30 or 40 years in a jail cell.

Mad4stevie · #9 10-27-2004, 05:32 PM

I used to be in support of it, until I took a law school class devoted entirely to the topic of Capital Punishment. After that, I had a very different view. It is amazing how much education can change your opinion.

Some things I didn't know or realize before my class in law school:

- Mentally retarded people can be executed
- It is not a deterrent because most people who commit murder do not really account for it in their "decisionmaking"
- It is not a deterrent because it is not a "swift and certain" punishment (i.e. the appeals drag on for years and your sentence could be commuted like Charles Manson, on legal technicalities)
- Lethal injection is not the quickest and surest method of execution - firing squad and hanging are
- It costs more in capital punishment cases because of all the automatic appeals, than it does to put the person in prison for life

However, my true feelings are that I am very uncomfortable with state-sanctioned killing. I think on some level it is like "playing God". And I don't feel that anyone should do that.

GypsySorcerer · #10 10-27-2004, 05:45 PM

I have been back and forth on the issue, for reasons already mentioned by others. I do not think it is a deterrent and I do think it is barbaric. I guess I can say that if it were up to me to flip the switch, I wouldn't. But it's not exactly heartbreaking to see someone liked McVeigh executed.

ShangriLaTroubl · #11 10-27-2004, 07:37 PM

I used to be totally in support of it, but now I'm kind of on the fense...I'm now questioning my support on many things in life, so....My reasons for being FOR it : people like Osama Bin Laden, Timothy McVeigh, DC Snipers, etc... I have no mercy for them....and if say I had a little baby, and it was brutally murdered, do you think I would be opposed to the death penalty on that person, hell no!

The problem comes in, when people, as we all know, have been innocent and put to death...so that is disturbing... But people who commit horrible crimes, dont have any sympathy from me. The only other main problem I have with it , is it's not a real good punishment...They dont feel the effects of the punishment...I mean yeah you ended their life...but I would rather make them suffer.

Georgia just recently in the last 2 yrs or shorter switched to lethal injection, although we still use the electric chair for those who were sentenced when the electric chair was still used..

CHRIS

amber · #12 10-27-2004, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnchantedSLN

Against it. IMO government sanctioned killing has a brutalizing effect on society that cancels out any deterrent value it could possibly have (if it has any to begin with; studies suggest that it doesn't.) Not to mention death penalty cases cost more in court appeals and administrative expenses than life sentences do. Plus, plenty of innocent people have already been put to death (hence the moratoriums in several states). I don't trust any government enough to give them that authority and hope they'll get it right "most of the time."

Hmmm, this is a good point. made me think. I knew about innocent people possibly being put to death, and i was opposed to that. However, in general i am super liberal, but on the death penalty, well, lets just say that I was ok with something that got rid of fetid humans. But then, when i was little ish, i swore i would only give money to causes that helped the environment, never humans. so.
that said, I guess i would have to be against it, in the hands of our gov't, and also if studies show it's not helpful. Which is fine, i think all the politicians i vote for would be against it anyway. I was never, uh, violently in favor of it, anyway...but i wasn't really opposed to it before, either. like i said, fetid humans and all...and i guess probably i don't hold human life in as high regard as some people may. It's not like we're an endangered part of an important ecosystem....
anyway
Amber

amber · #13 10-27-2004, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad4stevie

I used to be in support of it, until I took a law school class devoted entirely to the topic of Capital Punishment. After that, I had a very different view. It is amazing how much education can change your opinion.

Some things I didn't know or realize before my class in law school:

-- It is not a deterrent because most people who commit murder do not really account for it in their "decisionmaking"
However, my true feelings are that I am very uncomfortable with state-sanctioned killing. I think on some level it is like "playing God". And I don't feel that anyone should do that.

good post. I didn't ever think it would be a deterrent to anyone who would kill someone, it was more like i thought "whew, glad they're gone!"
AMber

Hawkeye · #14 10-27-2004, 09:25 PM

Quote:

- Lethal injection is not the quickest and surest method of execution

SO WHAT!!! What they need to do is make the death penalty MORE Painful and SLOW, but for those who deserve it of course. I think they should use less of the Death Penalty and only when they are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT sure and the crime is suitable then OF COURSE I support the death penalty. I don;t see how you can't. I know Brian will agree with this, Timothy McViehg didn't deserve a quick and painless death. He deserved to be tortured for a month, and then have his eyes ripped out and his arms cut off and to be thrown into a sea of piranas, and kept alive so he wishes he'd die but you still keep him alive until maybe after a week you give him a lethal injection. And the Sniper from a few years ago and Osama Bin Laden and child molestors all deserve that same punishment. Capitol punishment shouldn't be banned, it should be made much more harsh then it is!

amber · #15 10-27-2004, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

SO WHAT!!! What they need to do is make the death penalty MORE Painful and SLOW, but for those who deserve it of course. I think they should use less of the Death Penalty and only when they are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT sure and the crime is suitable then OF COURSE I support the death penalty. I don;t see how you can't. I know Brian will agree with this, Timothy McViehg didn't deserve a quick and painless death. He deserved to be tortured for a month, and then have his eyes ripped out and his arms cut off and to be thrown into a sea of piranas, and kept alive so he wishes he'd die but you still keep him alive until maybe after a week you give him a lethal injection. And the Sniper from a few years ago and Osama Bin Laden and child molestors all deserve that same punishment. Capitol punishment shouldn't be banned, it should be made much more harsh then it is!

Aw, c'mon, Hawkeye, don't hold back on us, what's your REAL opinion of capital punishment?