"That Made Me Stronger"

[GateandGarden]

I know that this is a very unpopular song, so I wanted to ask people why they dislike it so much. I think it's great, though certainly not the best on TISL. But what's wrong with it? Go on, bash it. I can take it.

Hillary

[markolas]

The lyrics are self-absorbed, but that's really the only bad thing about it, as far as I can tell. The music sounds great, and so do Stevie's vocals. But, it still winds up being one of two songs that I skip on TISL, because of the lyrics. She should've taken a different approach. They're just too self-absorbed.

[Edit]

I don't think all of the lyrics are self-absorbed. The part that annoys me is the chorus:

Well the conversation rings in my head
Well you know me better than I know myself
Will you write this for me
He says no, you write your songs yourself
That made me stronger
It made me hold on to me

The rest of the song is fine.

[David]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

[COLOR=DarkSlateBlue]I know that this is a very unpopular song, so I wanted to ask people why they dislike it so much. I think it's great, though certainly not the best on TISL. But what's wrong with it? Go on, bash it. I can take it.

I guess it's OK. . . I mean. . . eh. . . .

What I mean is, it's pretty good. . . I mean, it's just sort of ordinary, but it's good . . . just really ordinary, I find . . . but . . . eh . . . .

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by markolas

The lyrics are self-absorbed, but that's really the only bad thing about it, as far as I can tell. The music sounds great, and so do Stevie's vocals. But, it still winds up being one of two songs that I skip on TISL, because of the lyrics. She should've taken a different approach. They're just too self-absorbed.

[Edit]

I don't think all of the lyrics are self-absorbed. The part that annoys me is the chorus:

Well the conversation rings in my head
Well you know me better than I know myself
Will you write this for me
He says no, you write your songs yourself
That made me stronger
It made me hold on to me

The rest of the song is fine.

I guess it's just that I can't see how those lyrics are self-absorbed. I look at it like she asked him "Will you write this for me?" and he said, "No, I won't help you out--you're on your own." And so she was forced to go at it alone, and later realized that it made her a stronger individual. I think she may be using songwriting as a metaphor, saying that she asked him to stand beside her and help her through everything she had to do in life, in a much more general sense, and he implored her to do it herself, possibly out of bitterness or some feelings of animosity. (I keep relating it to the relationship with Lindsey in my head and thinking that he felt bitter because she broke up with him, and I imagine he's the guy in the song--just my opinion, as is this whole post, of course). And since he forced her to do things on her own, she realized that she had more strength as an individual than she had when she was leaning on him. I think of it as a song about coming to terms with not being attached to and dependent on someone else and being comfortable and just as content with that.

Does anyone else see it that way or am I just totally out of left field?

Hillary

[sparky]

Why don't I care for this song ? The music is kind of interesting. The first time I heard the song, the opening caught me. I thought it sounded exotic and cool. Then....it kind of drifts into blahville.

For one, the song is infected by the "well" virus. I can't stand Stevie's use of, and dependence on this throwaway word. I think it's sloppy writing. About a minute into the song, the whole thing just plods. There isn't much momentum. The song doesn't go anywhere to me. The bridge actually seems to slow the song's movement, instead of being a resolution or a transition. Also, the vocal sounds a little muffled.
The cherry on the cake is that it's a song about writing her songs herself, and she had someone else write the music ! That irony slays me to this day. Maybe it was a "neener neener" at T.P. "Fine, I'll get someone else to help me write !" However, that isn't what the song is about. Thus, I don't understand the clash in message there at all.
That being said, I think the song is just average. I don't hate it. I would have preferred she left it off altogether and used a better song. "Everybody Finds Out" would have been an excellent addition to this record, as I don't think it fits on SYW.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by sparky

Why don't I care for this song ? The music is kind of interesting. The first time I heard the song, the opening caught me. I thought it sounded exotic and cool. Then....it kind of drifts into blahville.

For one, the song is infected by the "well" virus. I can't stand Stevie's use of, and dependence on this throwaway word. I think it's sloppy writing. About a minute into the song, the whole thing just plods. There isn't much momentum. The song doesn't go anywhere to me. The bridge actually seems to slow the song's movement, instead of being a resolution or a transition. Also, the vocal sounds a little muffled.
The cherry on the cake is that it's a song about writing her songs herself, and she had someone else write the music ! That irony slays me to this day. Maybe it was a "neener neener" at T.P. "Fine, I'll get someone else to help me write !" However, that isn't what the song is about. Thus, I don't understand the clash in message there at all.
That being said, I think the song is just average. I don't hate it. I would have preferred she left it off altogether and used a better song. "Everybody Finds Out" would have been an excellent addition to this record, as I don't think it fits on SYW.

Good points there. I can't understand having someone else write the music. I hadn't even considered her excessive use of "well." For some reason, that doesn't bother me. But you're so right about the song not really building up to anything. I feel that way, too, I just hadn't really figured out that that was my problem. I was singing it the other day, and when I got to the bridge, I started thinking, Something should have been done differently, or left out, or written in, or something. I think you've more eloquently described what I was thinking. Still, it's one of those songs that I really like, in spite of the flaws. The song I decided to use as my username on this board is also not her best song by any stretch of the imagination, but it too really touched me. (But the production is much better IMO).

Hillary

[Josh2003]

I think what bothers me so much about this song is that it came up in practically every interview she did during the TISL release. At least, the incident behind the song did. Then we all knew what the song was about. Maybe if it was still a little vague as to what she was talking about in the song, more people would appreciate it.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by Josh2003

I think what bothers me so much about this song is that it came up in practically every interview she did during the TISL release. At least, the incident behind the song did. Then we all knew what the song was about. Maybe if it was still a little vague as to what she was talking about in the song, more people would appreciate it.

I wasn't a fan yet at the time of the release of TISL. Can someone please fill me in? This is the first I've heard of the "incident behind the song." This keeps getting more interesting.

Hillary

[GateandGarden]

Well, I just visited www.buckinghamnicks.net and read Nancy's lyric speculation on the song, in which she mentioned an incident with Tom Petty. Is that what you were referring to?

Hillary

[Johnny Stew]

I don't hate it. But it doesn't blow me away either.

I do really like the verses. Especially the opening line: "Dreams reoccur in my solitude... breaking my heart, injuring my mood."

But I guess the chorus is a little too-standard.

Oddly enough, I don't have as big of a problem with the fact that Stevie didn't write the music for it, even though she talks about being told to write her songs herself.
I tend to feel that, to Stevie, the WORDS are her songs, far more than any other part. And it's the WORDS she had to write herself, rather than letting someone else put them in her mouth.

Overall, it's a decent song, with parts worth recommending, but it never quite rises above being average.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Oddly enough, I don't have as big of a problem with the fact that Stevie didn't write the music for it, even though she talks about being told to write her songs herself.
I tend to feel that, to Stevie, the WORDS are her songs, far more than any other part. And it's the WORDS she had to write herself, rather than letting someone else put them in her mouth.

Well, I mean well, well, well...I am not completely clear on the process of her collaborations. In the past, I have read of near complete music tracks (from Rick Nowels and Mike Campbell specifically) being sent to her. Then she has either written the words or matched up words to the track that she had in her "vaults". Who really wrote the melody has never been stated. However, the thing is, some songs are credited as 'Words and Music by A & B', rather than 'Words by A, Music by B'. This leads me to believe this track came complete with an instrumental melody line. But I wasn't in the room.
Maybe a call to Phoenix this evening is necessary for clarification.

I suppose writing a song means different things to different people. I have written a lot of songs - but I don't consider a song a 'song' until the music is done and then I play the guitar and sing the words from beginning to end. I have many pages of lyrics laying around with no music or coherent melody thought out. I have little riffs and chord progressions taped or written down as well. I consider these two elements components. I don't consider them songs yet.

If a friend sent me a finished track with no words, and I came up with a melody line and words I would say we collaborated on a song. But, I would never really consider it "my song". I suppose it's really a vision thing for me.

For example, Bernie Taupin is Elton John's Lyricist - they write the two parts of the songs in different rooms. Who's really the songwriter ? I am not sure. In that relationship, the sum of the parts is way greater than the whole. But I know Elton writes almost all, if not all, of those melodies. I guess they are a team - but Bernie is always "the lyricist".

Perhaps I am splitting hairs here. I can only speak of my process, really. But, the way Stevie talks about her "WRITING", I always picture that demo process - the results of which we have frequently heard. For songs that she completely wrote herself. I believe she was lamenting to T.P. the fact that she had lost her ability to write at all for some time. Then she evidently went home and wrote two songs after the fateful dinner/diss at the Ritz Carlton. Songs that are solely credited to her. That makes sense. That's really cool. The song ABOUT the experience being a collaboration ? It doesn't annoy me, but it is extremely ironic. Okay, maybe does it annoy me

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by sparky

I believe she was lamenting to T.P. the fact that she had lost her ability to write at all for some time. Then she evidently went home and wrote two songs after the fateful dinner/diss at the Ritz Carlton. Songs that are solely credited to her. That makes sense. That's really cool. The song ABOUT the experience being a collaboration ? It doesn't annoy me, but it is extremely ironic. Okay, maybe does it annoy me

Yeah, the irony in it definitely isn't lost on me. But I guess it just doesn't really annoy me.
Especially since, as you pointed out, the songs she wrote directly as a result of that conversation, were written entirely by her. Thankfully.
If they hadn't been, THEN I would have been annoyed.

Maybe Stevie felt that the music Scott Crago and Tim Drury wrote, suited "That Made Me Stronger" better than the music she might write on her own. If it was for the betterment of the song, then it makes sense.

Anyway, it's an oddity no matter how you toss it, that a song about writing songs yourself, was co-written with others!

[Gypsy3]

Well it's one of my favorite songs on "TISL" which is my favorite Stevie album. The chorus lyrics are not the best, but the rest of the song is fantastic.

[markolas]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I guess it's just that I can't see how those lyrics are self-absorbed. I look at it like she asked him "Will you write this for me?" and he said, "No, I won't help you out--you're on your own." And so she was forced to go at it alone, and later realized that it made her a stronger individual. I think she may be using songwriting as a metaphor, saying that she asked him to stand beside her and help her through everything she had to do in life, in a much more general sense, and he implored her to do it herself, possibly out of bitterness or some feelings of animosity. (I keep relating it to the relationship with Lindsey in my head and thinking that he felt bitter because she broke up with him, and I imagine he's the guy in the song--just my opinion, as is this whole post, of course). And since he forced her to do things on her own, she realized that she had more strength as an individual than she had when she was leaning on him. I think of it as a song about coming to terms with not being attached to and dependent on someone else and being comfortable and just as content with that.

Does anyone else see it that way or am I just totally out of left field?

Hillary

No, I see what you're saying. I just think she shouldn't have been so specific...having writer's block isn't exactly a universal experience that everyone can relate to. I really do like the rest of the song, though.

[Serrart]

At start I liked the music but the lyrics seemed to me the text of a letter that could remain private. Now I see them more like a homage to a friend who helped her in a critical moment, and I can relate to that.

Romy