Passaic '75 vs New Haven '76

[fleetfootmike]

As this has just appeared for download on bt.easytree.org, now seems an appropriate time to ask:

Which is it? And what evidence do we have either way?

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by fleetfootmike

As this has just appeared for download on bt.easytree.org, now seems an appropriate time to ask:

What is bt.easytree.org?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

What is bt.easytree.org?

A place to download boots. It's too complicated for me to even attempt and I have dial-up, so...

[David]

Originally Posted by fleetfootmike

As this has just appeared for download on bt.easytree.org, now seems an appropriate time to ask: Which is it? And what evidence do we have either way?

When I first got online in 1995 or so, I hung out in the Fleetwood newsgroup. We used to argue about the King Biscuit radio broadcast all the time. One of the intelligent regs (intelligent except for the fact that he was on Prodigy) had a ticket stub from a friend of his who attended an old Mac show on November 20, 1975, at Yale University (New Haven) Coliseum (the Veterans Memorial Coliseum the band played on the Tusk Tour). The girl remembers seeing the King Biscuit mobile recording unit (a white van) at the site, recording for radio. I buy this, incidentally.

Fleetwood played the Capitol Theatre in Portchester NY on May 30, 1975. They also allegedly played the Capitol Theatre in Passaic NJ on October 17, 1975. In fact, that might be the show that Don't Let Me Down Again off "Live" is taken from.

The November 20 date is also given as the date for a show at Wake Forest University in North Carolina, but so far, that's just fan hearsay, & fairly late in the game, at that. The tape of that show is the one with Go Your Own Way. That NC gig may not be November 20, but the time frame seems right. Steve heard the band play GYOW on Thanksgiving, & the Billboard review of the Winterland show a few days after Thanksgiving also refers to You Can Go Your Own Way being performed.

When asked about this in a Q&A, Ken Callait & Leo Rossi only added to the confusion by referring to a city in a neighboring county of Passaic & then by bringing up an entirely different show in Wallingford CT:

"My partner, Leo Rossi, who toured with them since 1975, just told me that the King Biscuit show was from Union City, N.J. in 1975. I know it was a long time ago but I seem to recall it being recorded in a small radio station? No? I have many fond memories of mixing that show, fond, because if I hadn't have done it I probably wouldn't have recorded Rumours, and that probably wouldn't have met Fleetwood Mac at all! Well that was funny, Mick Fleetwood just called from Bubba Burger's in Maui, he said to say hello and he can't remember a thing about the King Biscuit show. That doesn't surprise me!"

[Sugar]

The Passiac show I have is dated May 1 1975 and has the following setlist:

Station Man
Spare Me A Little
Rhiannon
Landslide
I'm So Afraid
World Turning
Don't Let Me Down Again
Hypnotized

And that's it! Seems like it was trimmed down for the BN crowd. Is there a more complete version of this out there, and is this the wrong date?

Then I have one that is simply called "CT 1975" and, between the two, seems more likely to be a radio broadcast. Setlist:

Get like You Used to Be
Spare Me a Little
Station Man
Why
Rhiannon
Over My Head
Landslide
Oh Well
I'm So Afraid
Green Manalishi
World Turning
Blue Letter
Hypnotized

Again, is there a more complete version of this out there (they must have done more than 13 songs!), and should I date this Nov. 20, 1975?

I realize we may never get any definitive answers on some of these, but if we can all come to some sort of consensus it might make things a little easier on all of us.

Thanks for any light anyone can shed...

[Johnny Stew]

One if my greatest Mac-related wishes, is that the band would officially release a remastered version of the Trod Nossel Studios recording, from Wallingford, CT.

That is one of the most incredible Mac performances ever... it's not glossy and perfect, and yet it's flawless in its own way.

I still get goosebumps at various times throughout that show.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by Sugar

Station Man
Spare Me A Little
Rhiannon
Landslide
I'm So Afraid
World Turning
Don't Let Me Down Again
Hypnotized

This has been bootlegged so many times under so many names (and so many cities credited), yet it is just the ONE recording...from all my research, recorded in New Haven, CT

It has been released as:

Albatross, But Not Around My Neck
Rockhoppers Live 1975
Live In Passaic, NJ 1975
King Biscuit Flower Hour 1975
and mixed in with other BN outtakes & demos; released as a 2-LP set, Almanac

Originally Posted by Sugar

Get like You Used to Be
Spare Me a Little
Station Man
Why
Rhiannon
Over My Head
Landslide
Oh Well
I'm So Afraid
Green Manalishi
World Turning
Blue Letter
Hypnotized

This one has been released as Trod Nossel, Wallingford 1975, Who's The New Girl? & Smiling Ears...I assume that the Wallingford, CT credit is the correct one.

[David]

Originally Posted by Sugar

I realize we may never get any definitive answers on some of these, but if we can all come to some sort of consensus

My "database" is as follows:

King Biscuit Flower Hour
Yale University (Veterans Memorial) Coliseum
New Haven CT
November 20, 1975
(Big outdoor audience. Eight songs: Station Man, Spare Me a Little, Rhiannon, Landslide, I'm So Afraid, World Turning, Don't Let Me Down Again, Hypnotized)

Trod Nossel Studios
Wallingford CT
September 23, 1975
(Small indoor audience, radio station/studio. Thirteen songs: Get Like You Used to Be, Station Man, Spare Me a Little, Rhiannon, Why, Landslide, Over My Head, I'm So Afraid, Oh Well, Green Manalishi, World Turning, Blue Letter, Hypnotized)

The former might be from the Capitol Theatre in Passaic NJ (326 Monroe Street), where the band played on October 17, 1975. But what little decent evidence there is suggests it's the outdoor show in New Haven. However, Don't Let Me Down Again from the 1980 "Live" LP might be from the Capitol since the sleeve says "Passaic."

The Wallingford recording definitely predates the King Biscuit recording -- you can hear it in the arrangements (Rhiannon, for example). Wallingford is a lot more similar to the Landover show on video, which is probably from October 5, 1975 (twelve days earlier). The South Orange NJ audience recording falls in that time frame as well: October 13 -- eight days after the Landover video & four days before Passaic. You can hear lots of similarities in arrangements among this small cluster of late-September/early-October shows, whereas the King Biscuit & the Wake Forest University shows sound more evolved in terms of arrangements.

Caveat emptor, Sugah!

[David]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

One if my greatest Mac-related wishes, is that the band would officially release a remastered version of the Trod Nossel Studios recording, from Wallingford, CT. That is one of the most incredible Mac performances ever... it's not glossy and perfect, and yet it's flawless in its own way.

I think it's OK. It's not my preferred era. The band -- especially Mick & Lindsey -- hadn't yet fully developed their idiosyncratic styles or their chthonian exploration of the dark nights of the soul, & I'm really full of ****.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by David

& I'm really full of ****.

I've always thought so! LOL

[amber]

Originally Posted by David

& I'm really full of ****.

Naw, anyone who likes "one Deadly summer" can't be!
AMber

[ryan8472]

For the record, the Coliseum is an indoor venue.....Maybe they played at the Yale Bowl (at Yale's Football Stadium) in 75?

[Sugar]

ChiliD and David--Thank You!!!

I wonder how many other ledgies are out there scrambling to re-label their tapes, like I just did.

Good to know that these shows are complete. The setlist on The Penguin is much longer, but I'm guessing that it includes all songs that may have been done at any time on the tour.

Were all these shows this short? My Largo boot (date anyone?) also only has Get Like..., Station Man, Spare Me..., Rhiannon, Why, ISA, Oh Well, Green Manalishi, WT, Blue Letter, and Hypnotized.

The South Orange show has even less (dated Oct. 13, 1975: Get Like..., Station Man, Spare Me..., ISA, SYLM, Jumping at Shadows, Frozen Love, Rhiannon, Oh Well, WT, and Green Manalishi.

And the set sure seemed like an ongoing work in progress at this time. I initially thought it was because of the two new members and maybe they added their songs as they became more popular via the radio, but looking at these dates and setlists, that doesn't really seem to be the case. Maybe they actually just liked to change it up a bit more back then...

Thanks again, guys, and I'm sure I'm not the only one benefitting from this!

[Hawkeye]

The South Orange show has even less (dated Oct. 13, 1975: Get Like..., Station Man, Spare Me..., ISA, SYLM, Jumping at Shadows, Frozen Love, Rhiannon, Oh Well, WT, and Green Manalishi.

This show is my favorite of this tour for sure. the quality is definitely the worst but it's good enough quality to know it's greatness. This rhiannon in particular is the best rhiannon I've heard.

[macfan 57]

Originally Posted by Sugar

I wonder how many other ledgies are out there scrambling to re-label their tapes, like I just did.

I just did, too. Thanks ChiliD & David.