The mac songwriters listening other's solo works..

[wondergirl9847]

You brought up a great point. When I read that quote, I went...well, she spun that quote to be about her. In other words, if Lindsey is happy, then he'll not be on my back about stuff, so we both win. Ooookay. Instead of just saying, I hope that his album does well and he is happy!

I just don't like this quote: "Because it only makes my life easier when Lindsey is happy."

[CarneVaca]

I recall Lindsey calling Christine's and Stevie's solo tours "lounge acts." He was speaking of their performances, of course, but it gives you some insight as to what he really thought of their solo work. If he thought it was stellar, he might not have made that comment.

For that matter, I don't think Christine and Stevie care much about Lindsey's solo work. Suffice it to say that Stevie made some very unflattering comments to an Australian DJ about Lindsey's Tusk songs. If she didn't like those, I can't imagine her liking Law and Order or Go Insane.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by David

This is one of the things that drive me nuts about Nicks, & quite possibly one of the reasons that so many people think she's an airhead. She filters her aesthetic responses through an irrelevant prism of psychological or sociological concerns. Her responses are extramusical, the way a child might respond ("I love this movie because it made my mommy laugh"). Her comment above about "Law & Order" is equivalent to my saying that I really love "Say You Will" because my dad works for Reprise & the label needs higher sales this quarter in order for people to keep their jobs.

Then again, some of my pals from this board & elsewhere do essentially the same thing; they'll say, for example, that Bob Welch is their favorite member of Fleetwood Mac because Welch kept the band together through hard times. You kinda go, "Huh?" You wait for an aesthetic response ("His songs are rad," "His guitar-playing is punchy & creative," "He writes puzzling but fascinating lyrics") & the only point they have to make is a sociological one centering on considerations of the band's history.

I always enjoy your posts, David, and this was no exception. Probably the best one I've read in a real long time.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

I recall Lindsey calling Christine's and Stevie's solo tours "lounge acts." He was speaking of their performances, of course, but it gives you some insight as to what he really thought of their solo work. If he thought it was stellar, he might not have made that comment.

For that matter, I don't think Christine and Stevie care much about Lindsey's solo work. Suffice it to say that Stevie made some very unflattering comments to an Australian DJ about Lindsey's Tusk songs. If she didn't like those, I can't imagine her liking Law and Order or Go Insane.

Taking into consideration that Stevie's and Christine's solo work was as mainstream as possible, it's not hard to imagine that he didn't exactly like their stuff. He's always said that he thinks Stevie writes amazing lyrics, but the musician in him probably looks at her solo stuff and thinks 'This is unlistenable.' I always thought that Lindsey tried to infuse his quirkiness into Stevie's and Chris' music, so it must've been boring for him to listen to just average, mainstream rock pop.

On the other hand, you have those two who purposely went after the homogenized pop rock sound and probably looked at Lindsey's solo work as, simply put, weird ****. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that either Stevie or Chris said on first listen to Law and Order "He's not pulling that **** with MY songs."

[AliP]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

I recall Lindsey calling Christine's and Stevie's solo tours "lounge acts." He was speaking of their performances, of course, but it gives you some insight as to what he really thought of their solo work. If he thought it was stellar, he might not have made that comment.

For that matter, I don't think Christine and Stevie care much about Lindsey's solo work. Suffice it to say that Stevie made some very unflattering comments to an Australian DJ about Lindsey's Tusk songs. If she didn't like those, I can't imagine her liking Law and Order or Go Insane.

Lindsey actually said that he considered their performances somewhat like lounge acts because they played alot of FM songs and relied on the FM songs in their performances. Of course, he could have truly meant that he thought all of the performance was loungy and just didn't say it.

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by AliP

Lindsey actually said that he considered their performances somewhat like lounge acts because they played alot of FM songs and relied on the FM songs in their performances. Of course, he could have truly meant that he thought all of the performance was loungy and just didn't say it.

That's right, I remember that well. Of course he could have been implying he didn't like their music, but it's easy to take the quote out of context and make it sound like he was having a right old go at Stevie and Chris!

What's ironic about it though, is that when Lindsey put together his "guitar army" and went on the road, he did the exact same thing. He played only one song each from Law And Order and Go Insane, a selection from OOTC (and didn't even include his almost hit Countdown) and then played his greatest Mac hits including The Chain (which shouldn't be performed by anyone but the Mac, in my opinion)! If Lindsey truly wasn't speaking out of jealousy then why didn't he act less like a "lounge act" himself and play more songs from his previous two solo records and keep the Mac stuff down to a minimum? Half his show was Mac material.

Lindsey can be as contrary as Stevie you know. They're as bad as each other!

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

That's right, I remember that well. Of course he could have been implying he didn't like their music, but it's easy to take the quote out of context and make it sound like he was having a right old go at Stevie and Chris!

Don't give that much credit. I was going from memory, not trying to take it out of context. Even in context, the idea that he would use such a disparaging term speaks volumes of what he thought about them as solo acts.

What's ironic about it though, is that when Lindsey put together his "guitar army" and went on the road, he did the exact same thing. He played only one song each from Law And Order and Go Insane, a selection from OOTC (and didn't even include his almost hit Countdown) and then played his greatest Mac hits including The Chain (which shouldn't be performed by anyone but the Mac, in my opinion)! If Lindsey truly wasn't speaking out of jealousy then why didn't he play more songs from his previous two solo records and keep the Mac stuff down to a minimum? Half his show was Mac material.

While I agree that having more solo songs would have been preferable, can we really expect him to ignore his body of work with Fleetwood Mac? It would have been silly really. Really, the only song that he shouldn't have played was The Chain. His other FM numbers, Save Me a Place, Eyes of the World, Go Your Own Way, I'm So Afraid, Tusk and Big Love, are quintessential Lindsey Buckingham numbers as much as they are Fleetwood Mac, if not more so. Besides, not one of those numbers was done in a Fleetwood Mac way. They all had arrangements considerably different from how they were played with FM, particularly Eyes of the World, Big Love and Save Me a Place.

Can we make the same argument for Stevie and Christine playing their Fleetwood Mac songs? Of course. And perhaps Lindsey regrets ever having said that, but his approach to the songs was considerably different from the way they had been done by FM. It was fresh and interesting.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

That's right, I remember that well. Of course he could have been implying he didn't like their music, but it's easy to take the quote out of context and make it sound like he was having a right old go at Stevie and Chris!

What's ironic about it though, is that when Lindsey put together his "guitar army" and went on the road, he did the exact same thing. He played only one song each from Law And Order and Go Insane, a selection from OOTC (and didn't even include his almost hit Countdown) and then played his greatest Mac hits including The Chain (which shouldn't be performed by anyone but the Mac, in my opinion)! If Lindsey truly wasn't speaking out of jealousy then why didn't he play more songs from his previous two solo records and keep the Mac stuff down to a minimum? Half his show was Mac material.

Lindsey can be as contrary as Stevie you know. They're as bad as each other!

Exactly. IMO, it was a totally jealousy issue back then. Stevie can go out and sell millions of records without Fleetwood Mac while he couldn't....he needed to do songs like GYOW and NGBA because if not, people wouldn't know his solo material which is sad but true. That's not to say that Lindsey's solo albums don't contain AMAZING AMAZING songs...they do and I love them. But to the casual Fleetwood Mac fan who happens to hear "oh, Lindsey Buckingham from Fleetwood Mac is doing a show"...they're not going to know his solo stuff..they're going to want to hear some of the old hits so in order to get people out to see a show, he's going to have to perform those. Stevie didn't need to rely as much on Fleetwood Mac because she had several hits and several songs on the radio. Other than his work with Fleetwood Mac, Trouble, Holiday Road and Dancing Across The USA are the only songs that people would probably know and may not even know were Lindsey. Just a thought.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by David

This is one of the things that drive me nuts about Nicks, & quite possibly one of the reasons that so many people think she's an airhead. She filters her aesthetic responses through an irrelevant prism of psychological or sociological concerns. Her responses are extramusical, the way a child might respond ("I love this movie because it made my mommy laugh"). Her comment above about "Law & Order" is equivalent to my saying that I really love "Say You Will" because my dad works for Reprise & the label needs higher sales this quarter in order for people to keep their jobs.

Then again, some of my pals from this board & elsewhere do essentially the same thing; they'll say, for example, that Bob Welch is their favorite member of Fleetwood Mac because Welch kept the band together through hard times. You kinda go, "Huh?" You wait for an aesthetic response ("His songs are rad," "His guitar-playing is punchy & creative," "He writes puzzling but fascinating lyrics") & the only point they have to make is a sociological one centering on considerations of the band's history.

I think it's the dichotomy of the head and the heart.
Some people can separate any emotional feelings they have towards music, and look at it completely analytically... they can tell you with amazing clarity, exactly what it is that they appreciate about a song and what it is that they don't.

For others, it's an emotional response. A song elicits feelings in them that they can't necessarily explain... or they have a special attachment to it that goes beyond the music itself. It could be related to the artist, a personal experience, or a whole host of other possibilities.

For myself, I always say that it's the 50% Passionate-Italian in me, that causes me to be so emotionally involved in this music. And then the 25% Practical-English in me, can (sometimes) explain what it is that I think makes the music unique, in a discriminating way.
(The other 25% is Irish, for anyone who cares. )

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

While I agree that having more solo songs would have been preferable, can we really expect him to ignore his body of work with Fleetwood Mac? It would have been silly really. Really, the only song that he shouldn't have played was The Chain. His other FM numbers, Save Me a Place, Eyes of the World, Go Your Own Way, I'm So Afraid, Tusk and Big Love, are quintessential Lindsey Buckingham numbers as much as they are Fleetwood Mac, if not more so. Besides, not one of those numbers was done in a Fleetwood Mac way. They all had arrangements considerably different from how they were played with FM, particularly Eyes of the World, Big Love and Save Me a Place.

I agree that Lindsey should play his Fleetwood Mac songs but in light of what he said in the interview about relying too much on Mac material Mr Buckingham was being a hypocrite, that's all I was pointing out. I would also point out that songs like Angel and Rhiannon were changed for Stevie's solo tours too.

Originally Posted by GardenStateGirlie

Exactly. IMO, it was a totally jealousy issue back then. Stevie can go out and sell millions of records without Fleetwood Mac while he couldn't....he needed to do songs like GYOW and NGBA because if not, people wouldn't know his solo material which is sad but true.

I agree. I love Lindsey's solo stuff and I can't understand why it didn't sell as well as Stevie's but the fact is it didn't and I think Lindsey even admitted it himself (on his Behind The Music if I remember correctly) that he was kinda jealous of Stevie's success! That has to have coloured his words back then.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

If Lindsey truly wasn't speaking out of jealousy then why didn't he act less like a "lounge act" himself and play more songs from his previous two solo records and keep the Mac stuff down to a minimum? Half his show was Mac material.

Lindsey can be as contrary as Stevie you know. They're as bad as each other!

I was going to extol Lindsey for playing six new songs on his OOTC tour - then I checked out the set list for the 1981 Belladonna tour Lindsey was critcizing. Out of sixteen songs, ELEVEN were brand-new-solo. What the hell was he thinking?!

[rezamatic]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

He played only one song each from Law And Order and Go Insane, a selection from OOTC (and didn't even include his almost hit Countdown) and then played his greatest Mac hits including The Chain (which shouldn't be performed by anyone but the Mac, in my opinion)! If Lindsey truly wasn't speaking out of jealousy then why didn't he act less like a "lounge act" himself and play more songs from his previous two solo records and keep the Mac stuff down to a minimum? Half his show was Mac material.

I can totally agree with what was said here, however I also feel that Lindsey's OOTC tour was a special exception. If you remember listening to his opening monologues, he was practically petrified of the crowd ("So as long as no one shouts out GYOW TOO early, I think we'll be okay" [uncomfortable laugh] "No, seriously, thanks for coming..."). I think playing a lot of safe F-Mac tunes was his way of saying 'look, you'll get your money's worth but this IS a solo show and I have a lot more to offer'. Where as Stevie had such a stronger fan base that they weren't there just to see 'the chick from Fleetwood Mac' and she had more wiggle room. Still, I do find his comments a little hypocritical regardless.

I also think that this is why he didn't take a lot from Law & Order or Go Insane. Being uncomfortable around new audiences. "Trouble" was the safe choice, but I just couldn't see his guitar mafia belting out 'I Want You' or 'Bwana' just because his style is/was so different now than the 80's flash--and the audience might not go for it. I bet that if he went on a solo tour this or next year, there'd be a big shift in his selections. Also, I just don't think half of those songs mean as much to him anymore on an emotional level (although I'm sure many could argue this point) as OOTC's selections. His musical tastes have/had changed dramatically since then.

But I still would drop dead if he ever suddenly played "I Want You" live, haha. I used to play that song in the dorms when I woke up. Annoyed the hell out of my roommates.

[Les]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

If Lindsey truly wasn't speaking out of jealousy then why didn't he act less like a "lounge act" himself and play more songs from his previous two solo records and keep the Mac stuff down to a minimum?

He gave a few interviews during the Cradle period where he said he decided it was "silly" not to do a good selection of FM tunes. So I suspect that in the intervening 9 years between when he made the comment and went out on tour himself, he debated and argued with himself and changed his mind. He also, while in FM, talked a lot about how he felt like he wanted his solo work to be markedly different from FM, otherwise he didn't see the point of having a solo career. When he finally left FM, he felt like it wasn't as important to him to make the differentiation anymore because it was all a part of his work and he should represent it all.

I think chalking up anything critical Lindsey ever said about Stevie (or Christine) to pure jealousy, as I've seen suggested over and over and over on The Ledge, isn't really fair. I don't doubt there were jealousies, but sometimes they (all of them) just didn't like what their bandmates did on their own..and hey, sometimes, they changed their minds too. As different as these people all are (which they point out all the time), it seems utterly natural to me that wouldn't totally adore each other's solo work or solo tours.

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

For myself, I always say that it's the 50% Passionate-Italian in me, that causes me to be so emotionally involved in this music. And then the 25% Practical-English in me, can (sometimes) explain what it is that I think makes the music unique, in a discriminating way.
(The other 25% is Irish, for anyone who cares. )

Hey, your ethnic make-up is nearly identical to mine, except I have some German thrown in.

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by Les

He gave a few interviews during the Cradle period where he said he decided it was "silly" not to do a good selection of FM tunes. So I suspect that in the intervening 9 years between when he made the comment and went out on tour himself, he debated and argued with himself and changed his mind. He also, while in FM, talked a lot about how he felt like he wanted his solo work to be markedly different from FM, otherwise he didn't see the point of having a solo career. When he finally left FM, he felt like it wasn't as important to him to make the differentiation anymore because it was all a part of his work and he should represent it all.

I think chalking up anything critical Lindsey ever said about Stevie (or Christine) to pure jealousy, as I've seen suggested over and over and over on The Ledge, isn't really fair. I don't doubt there were jealousies, but sometimes they (all of them) just didn't like what their bandmates did on their own..and hey, sometimes, they changed their minds too. As different as these people all are (which they point out all the time), it seems utterly natural to me that wouldn't totally adore each other's solo work or solo tours.

You make a good point. Nine years is long enough for anyone to change their mind, plus not being in Fleetwood Mac must have hugely influenced what songs he decided to play.

I will however defend myself, in that, I believe Lindsey's comment about Stevie's and Christine's solo shows being lounge acts did smack of jealousy - as Nancy said, Stevie's show only contained five Mac songs out of sixteen in total. I'm not saying that Lindsey was jealous all the time, but in that instance it came across that way. And, as I said before, let's remember this is something that Lindsey himself has admitted, that he has at times been jealous, and this may well be one of those rare times. Also I can't believe if he had toured with either Law And Order or Go Insane he wouldn't have played any Mac songs at all.

Just my opinion.