Beheading Video - for use in high schools? - Page 2

GardenStateGirlie · #16 05-20-2004, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessica Leigh

what was Nick Berg doing over there? i read that he owned some sort of company that has to do with radio towers or something? and he was there looking for work? and he was supposedly detained for having isreali stamps in his passport? he emailed saying he was detained by americans? but they deny it and say it was iraqis? ...but iraqis deny ever having contact with him? one thing i do trust about Iraqis is that they happily take full credit for the evil things they do... and they are condemning this?

Jess, Nick was from West Chester, PA...not too far from here. Yes, he was over there looking for work in radio transmitting (if memory serves) and he had been detained. Shortly thereafter, his family received an e-mail saying that we had him and that he was safe and in good hands but that he needed to stay. I don't know that the public will obtain the answers anytime in the immediate future. His family deserves them more than we do...especially since they were the people who were e-mailed thinking that he was safe.

Jessica Leigh · #17 05-20-2004, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GardenStateGirlie

Jess, Nick was from West Chester, PA...not too far from here. Yes, he was over there looking for work in radio transmitting (if memory serves) and he had been detained. Shortly thereafter, his family received an e-mail saying that we had him and that he was safe and in good hands but that he needed to stay. I don't know that the public will obtain the answers anytime in the immediate future. His family deserves them more than we do...especially since they were the people who were e-mailed thinking that he was safe.

and if he was safe why was he wearing a US issued prisoner's jumpsuit? and if he was just there as a civilian by himself... why would the FBI be all into it? was he up to no good? or is the US just a bunch of f*cktards?

edit: sorry i'm rambling off these questions.... i'm totally into this now... i try to not get into these kinds of things.. but once i hear one bit of info i am completely consumed... sick to my stomach...

Hippocampus · #18 05-20-2004, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad4stevie

I was wondering what opinion everyone here had about those teachers who got suspended for their advocacy of watching the beheading video of Nick Berg in Iraq.

Well I would go further than suspension but thankfully for them my opinion doesn't matter. If people only understood that distributing and watching this horror only encourages more atrocity. With all the free publicity these murderers are getting on the pretense of informing the masses, it's only a matter of time before another video comes our way.

Watching this video isn't informative in any way, it's pure voyeurism. It's bad enough having a description of what happened but now we get to watch it too. If only people weren't damn ghouls.

darklinensuit · #19 05-20-2004, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GardenStateGirlie

Jess, Nick was from West Chester, PA...not too far from here.

My family is close to WC & I have friends there. I hear it's been big news in Philly & the Jewish community.

- Jake

CarneVaca · #20 05-20-2004, 10:04 AM

Context. If students were asked or instructed to watch this, it should be done in context as a group with someone explaining the point of watching this video in the first place. With the parents' consent. Once you bring the issue of context into this discussion, the question that begs an answer is, Is there a point to watching this video? I would say yes. But if the intended viewers are young students, I would say I'm not sure.

I remember a lot of controversy when Schindler's List came out. A lot of school districts got themselves in hot water for sending entire classes to see the movie.

There is a natural inclination on the part of parents to want to shield their children from the horrors of the world. This is perfectly understandable. For instance, my wife and I no longer watch the news in front of our 16-month-old. Some of the images are too disturbing, and while I am not convinced that watching these will give the child some emotional problem or other that may not manifest itself until later, I am not willing to take the risk.

I guess ultimately I am not sure where I sit on this. If I had a teenage child and I decided that she/he should see this, I would want to be there and explain the situation and try to also explain that human beings do bad things. To one another.

I haven't watched the video, and I don't plan to. As a former reporter, I've seen enough real-life gore. But part of me says we should probably all see it.

dissention · #21 05-20-2004, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessica Leigh

and if he was safe why was he wearing a US issued prisoner's jumpsuit? and if he was just there as a civilian by himself... why would the FBI be all into it? was he up to no good? or is the US just a bunch of f*cktards?

edit: sorry i'm rambling off these questions.... i'm totally into this now... i try to not get into these kinds of things.. but once i hear one bit of info i am completely consumed... sick to my stomach...

Not just the FBI, the CIA was involved, too. Let's look at the facts:

-He had only a little bit of work in Iraq, then left once he couldn't find any. He returned a month later and still couldn't find any; he hadn't worked at all when he went back for a second time.

-US forces had him in custody for weeks, blamed it on the Iraqi police (which is run by US forces), then it was proven to be a lie.

-CIA and FBI agents went to the Berg household and grilled them incessantly about their son.

-Back in '01, Nick Berg's computer passwords at his college were used by Moussaoui, one of the hijackers on 9/11. A coincidence my ass.

-Berg had Iraqi relatives who lived in Iraq.

-He was wearing a US-issue prison jumpsuit in the awful video. This video is a weeks after his release from a US detention center.

-There was a gap of eleven hours from the opening statements in the video to the time when he was "killed."

-The hands of the killers are white, they are all quite chubby, and Zarqawi is supposedly wearing a gold wedding ring that he is forbidden to wear. They are also wearing tennis shoes.

-They say it's Zarqawi in the video, but he wears a fake leg (if he's even alive).

-The audio on the video is completely out of sync with what is going on, which means the screams could've been manipulated.

-Experts have said that the language the killers are speaking is pretty bad and not consistent witht he dialect they should be speaking.

-One of the killers seems VERY nervous and moves around a lot.

-Berg is not struggling in the video.

-There's not much blood spurting out and there would be LOTS of it if they cut his head while he was alive. Every human has a jugular, after all. He would also be convulsing violently.

-His body was somehow identified two full days before the US had even seen the video, and it was identified while the head was missing. And, keep in mind, he was just a civilain.

-The US claims to have offered him a plane home but they say he refused it. Two days later, he sent an email to his fmaily saying that he wanted to come home ASAP, but he would have to sneak through Turkey to do so. Why would he have to sneak out of the country if the US offered him a plane home?

Plus much, much more. It's all just mind-boggling.

gldstwmn · #22 05-20-2004, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

And the biggest shocker is his tie to Moussaoui. That **** freaked me out.

Nothing adds up and it's all getting swept under the rug. We need to know the truth.

Yup. Raise your hand if you've ever ridden the bus to school with a terrorist and then let them use your computer.

wondergirl9847 · #23 05-20-2004, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Yup. Raise your hand if you've ever ridden the bus to school with a terrorist and then let them use your computer.

I TOLD you to keep that to yourself!! Geez, I cannot trust you Ledgies with ANY information. It was ONE time, he needed to check his email.

gldstwmn · #24 05-20-2004, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

I TOLD you to keep that to yourself!! Geez, I cannot trust you Ledgies with ANY information. It was ONE time, he needed to check his email.

Jessica Leigh · #25 05-21-2004, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

I TOLD you to keep that to yourself!! Geez, I cannot trust you Ledgies with ANY information. It was ONE time, he needed to check his email.

lol Thanks Christy... i needed a laugh after reading all of this heavy information...

Wow dissention that is all too much... i knew most of what you posted already... but must have missed the part about his ties to Moussaoui... do you mean they just used the same passwords for their own respective computers and emails? or were they into each others?

dissention · #26 05-21-2004, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessica Leigh

Wow dissention that is all too much... i knew most of what you posted already... but must have missed the part about his ties to Moussaoui... do you mean they just used the same passwords for their own respective computers and emails? or were they into each others?

To my knowledge, the students had their own personal passwords for when they used school computers. Moussaoui used Berg's passwords to use the computers. That's really all I know, but what a coincidence, eh?

gldstwmn · #27 05-21-2004, 05:26 PM

This could be total b.s. but if it isn't someone's going to have some splainin' to do:

http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?....8445&mid=12296

NEWS- Berg & Abu VidCamera is SAME
by: mfc1212 (M/Rochester NY) 05/21/04 03:15 pm
Msg: 12296 of 15280
23 recommendations

one as Prison abuse was used. Word is spreading around Kodak Park here in Rochester NY. And will break on national News tonite that Kodak film experts have analyzed the Nick Berg video and some of the Abu Grhaib Prison videos comparing them for certain encrypted recording signatures.
Each Video camera leaves a certain signature mark, much like a fingerprint or striation markings on bullets in gun barrels. Same goes for CD-ROM Burners, they leave a trace or type of Cookies on the finished product.
These are tested by computer and not visible by the nekkid eye. Experts here after lunch have concluded that one of the 2 video cameras used in the Nick Berg "beheading" was also used to film US troop abuses of Iraqi detainees.
THIS is BAD news for BushCorp., Military, and CIA. .

dissention · #28 05-21-2004, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

This could be total b.s. but if it isn't someone's going to have some splainin' to do:

http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?....8445&mid=12296

NEWS- Berg & Abu VidCamera is SAME
by: mfc1212 (M/Rochester NY) 05/21/04 03:15 pm
Msg: 12296 of 15280
23 recommendations

one as Prison abuse was used. Word is spreading around Kodak Park here in Rochester NY. And will break on national News tonite that Kodak film experts have analyzed the Nick Berg video and some of the Abu Grhaib Prison videos comparing them for certain encrypted recording signatures.
Each Video camera leaves a certain signature mark, much like a fingerprint or striation markings on bullets in gun barrels. Same goes for CD-ROM Burners, they leave a trace or type of Cookies on the finished product.
These are tested by computer and not visible by the nekkid eye. Experts here after lunch have concluded that one of the 2 video cameras used in the Nick Berg "beheading" was also used to film US troop abuses of Iraqi detainees.
THIS is BAD news for BushCorp., Military, and CIA. .

Yeah, there's a thread about it on the DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=104x1642371

I fthis can be proven, it'll certainly explain a helluva lot.

Also, read this, it's by Nick Berg's father....very heartbreaking:

George Bush Never Looked into Nick's Eyes

by Michael Berg

My son, Nick, was my teacher and my hero. He was the kindest, gentlest man I know; no, the kindest, gentlest human being I have ever known. He quit the Boy Scouts of America because they wanted to teach him to fire a handgun. Nick, too, poured into me the strength I needed, and still need, to tell the world about him.

People ask me why I focus on putting the blame for my son's tragic and atrocious end on the Bush administration. They ask: "Don't you blame the five men who killed him?" I have answered that I blame them no more or less than the Bush administration, but I am wrong: I am sure, knowing my son, that somewhere during their association with him these men became aware of what an extraordinary man my son was. I take comfort that when they did the awful thing they did, they weren't quite as in to it as they might have been. I am sure that they came to admire him.

I am sure that the one who wielded the knife felt Nick's breath on his hand and knew that he had a real human being there. I am sure that the others looked into my son's eyes and got at least a glimmer of what the rest of the world sees. And I am sure that these murderers, for just a brief moment, did not like what they were doing.

George Bush never looked into my son's eyes. George Bush doesn't know my son, and he is the worse for it. George Bush, though a father himself, cannot feel my pain, or that of my family, or of the world that grieves for Nick, because he is a policymaker, and he doesn't have to bear the consequences of his acts. George Bush can see neither the heart of Nick nor that of the American people, let alone that of the Iraqi people his policies are killing daily.

Donald Rumsfeld said that he took responsibility for the sexual abuse of Iraqi prisoners. How could he take that responsibility when there was no consequence? Nick took the consequences.

Even more than those murderers who took my son's life, I can't stand those who sit and make policies to end lives and break the lives of the still living.

Nick was not in the military, but he had the discipline and dedication of a soldier. Nick Berg was in Iraq to help the people without any expectation of personal gain. He was only one man, but through his death he has become many. The truly unselfish spirit of giving your all to do what you know in your own heart is right even when you know it may be dangerous; this spirit has spread among the people who knew Nick, and that group has spread and is spreading all over the world.

So what were we to do when we in America were attacked on September 11, that infamous day? I say we should have done then what we never did before: stop speaking to the people we labeled our enemies and start listening to them. Stop giving preconditions to our peaceful coexistence on this small planet, and start honoring and respecting every human's need to live free and autonomously, to truly respect the sovereignty of every state. To stop making up rules by which others must live and then separate rules for ourselves.

George Bush's ineffective leadership is a weapon of mass destruction, and it has allowed a chain reaction of events that led to the unlawful detention of my son which immersed him in a world of escalated violence. Were it not for Nick's detention, I would have had him in my arms again. That detention held him in Iraq not only until the atrocities that led to the siege of Fallujah, but also the revelation of the atrocities committed in the jails in Iraq, in retaliation for which my son's wonderful life was put to an end.

My son's work still goes on. Where there was one peacemaker before, I now see and have heard from thousands of peacemakers. Nick was a man who acted on his beliefs. We, the people of this world, now need to act on our beliefs. We need to let the evildoers on both sides of the Atlantic know that we are fed up with war. We are fed up with the killing and bombing and maiming of innocent people. We are fed up with the lies. Yes, we are fed up with the suicide bombers, and with the failure of the Israelis and Palestinians to find a way to stop killing each other. We are fed up with negotiations and peace conferences that are entered into on both sides with preset conditions that preclude the outcome of peace. We want world peace now.

Many have offered to pray for Nick and my family. I appreciate their thoughts, but I ask them to include in their prayers a prayer for peace. And I ask them to do more than pray. I ask them to demand peace now.

--Michael Berg is the father of Nick Berg, the US contractor beheaded on video in Iraq this month by a group believed to be linked to al-Qaida. This is an extract from his message of support for the 'Stop The War Coalition's demonstration, End the Torture - Bring the Troops Home Now', which will be held at 11am tomorrow at the Embankment in London