Was Mick's Book 'Filled With Lies'?

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Lux

Ah, repression?

Equating controlling your impulses with repression is a bit of stretch, wouldn't you say?

See, I believe everyone is violent. Most of us know how to control those violent impulses. If one is so violent to the point that one has to repress it until it explodes, then one has bigger problems. Nyet?

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by Lux

Wait, is a lady allowed to hit a man? Can a lady hit a lady? What if they're not even ladies, rather girls? Can a man hit a girl on the condition that she is not also a lady?

I want to hit someone.

I had a feeling a few people would respond badly to the maxim "A man should never hit a lady."

Well, of course, hitting is bad in all cases. Why? Because it's wrong to hurt someone, for women as well as men. So please don't hit me, Lux. Why would anyone think, that because I say a man should never hit a woman, that I thereby must find it acceptable for everyone else to go ballistic on each other?

The reason most people are especially appalled when men hit women is simple. In most cases (admittedly not 100% of the time) the man is bigger and stronger. They are just made that way. So, they have the greater responsibility. It's like "Pick on someone your own size," essentially. Now some men chafe at the idea that society frowns on them hitting a woman if she "deserves it." They feel this is unfair to men - why should a man be expected to exercise more control on his temper when fighting with women than he does when fighting with other men? I don't really know what to say to them if they don't understand the disparity there.

I do cut LB some slack if Stevie attacked him first, because it's human to, as CarneVaca stated, "respond in kind" (although the idea that he only put his hands around her neck because she first put her hands around his is really stretching it. Come on. We might as well say she pulled a gun on him and the only way he could disarm her was by choking her.) I do, however, wish he had been strong enough to resist the impulse to use his greater strength to overpower her (as he obviously did, big suprirse there) and hurt her. I find that upsetting and I'm not going to go around pretending that it was somehow OK, despite how much I love Lindsey. I also don't think it was OK for Stevie to attack Lindsey, but he wasn't the one getting flung across a car, now, was he? Of course not. Stevie wouldn't be ABLE to do that to him. He could have used that strength to restrain her, but he chose to use it to hurt her, and that's wrong. I find it discouraging that so many people want to justify it.

[David]

Originally Posted by Lux

I want to hit someone.

Go for it, slugger!

[David]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

The reason most people are especially appalled when men hit women is simple. In most cases (admittedly not 100% of the time) the man is bigger and stronger. They are just made that way. So, they have the greater responsibility. It's like "Pick on someone your own size," essentially.

That physical difference is very strongly ingrained in our psyche. I, too, react more unfavorably to hearing about men who knock women around than vice versa.

Being in a band is ipso facto dysfunctional, & bandmates (what an ironic term) frequently let their id overtake their superego. You can really come to hate your bandmates, even more so than family, because with your family you just stand up & walk out; but in a band, you're generally trapped by a commitment, usually a contract, to perform or show up or whatever. I've had a few altercations with bandmates, & plenty of shouting matches.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

(although the idea that he only put his hands around her neck because she first put her hands around his is really stretching it. Come on. We might as well say she pulled a gun on him and the only way he could disarm her was by choking her.

Nancy, I wasn't even arguing that, even though it may have come across that way. In all this speculation, I was merely suggesting that if she attacked him, as she says she did, it would be natural for him to react with force. I am not condoning it; I am merely saying I understand the impulse. The question is whether he went too far.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

I had a feeling a few people would respond badly to the maxim "A man should never hit a lady."

Not me. I don't care if a woman is in the process of castrating a man, the man has no right to lay a finger on her.

The fact of the matter is this: Stevie had absolutely no right to get violent with him and he had no right to get violent with her. They were both in the wrong and while Stevie instigated it, he could've just taken himself out of the situation and left without reciprocating her behavior. Simple as that.

[Johnny Stew]

I think the most telling thing of all, is that... whatever went down that day... Stevie & Lindsey are working together again, and appear to be on a friendlier basis than they've been in 30 years.
So it seems to me that both accept blame for whatever part they played in that altercation, and... perhaps more importantly... both have forgiven the other for their part in it.

It sure can be fun to talk about, but I'm glad it's all in the past.

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by Les

Nope, he doesn't. John puts his hands around his throat to demonstrate it was ugly. His hands? Her hands? Both? Take your pick. He doesn't say. Given John's tendency to not be able to find words sometimes when expressing himself, and instead using hand gestures and body language, I always thought he was also referring to the unhappy and horrible nature of that meeting in general. There's no doubt it was a really horrible day from everyone's point of view. But trying to pin down the details always becomes problematic.

You're right...I shouldn't have written that John "said" that, but you can't quote a gesture! I should have just taken the time to describe it instead. However, it is my opinion that the gesture is very specific to what actually happened, not in reference to the general ugliness of that day. You are also right in that he does not specify who's hands were around who's neck...I just assumed he meant Lindsey on Stevie because the very next clip is Stevie saying she thought Lindsey "was going to kill her" (again, she does not appear to be being sarcastic at all in saying this). So part of my perception could have been swayed by the drama of editing. In the end, they probably both put their hands on each other. Everyone seems to already have gotten into the logistics of men and women putting their hands on each other, so I won't bother, but we're all just human in the end. It is funny when Stevie talks about she and Lindsey chasing each other up and down Christine's street! Didn't any of the neighbors video tape?!

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I think the most telling thing of all, is that... whatever went down that day... Stevie & Lindsey are working together again, and appear to be on a friendlier basis than they've been in 30 years.
So it seems to me that both accept blame for whatever part they played in that altercation, and... perhaps more importantly... both have forgiven the other for their part in it.

Johnny, you're always here to bring in a wonderfully simplistic and positive point of view after everyone (sometimes including myself ) has been exhuatively dissecting and debating a topic. It's appreciated.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by EveryHour

Johnny, you're always here to bring in a wonderfully simplistic and positive point

Oh, come on, now. No need to call Johnny simple!

[Sugar]

Far as I can tell in 1987 we're lucky they didn't kill each other. I mean COME ON! The emotions that must have been running in both of them at that moment...professional commitments...personal commitments...and he's just WALKING!?!?

Eh, I think everyone got off pretty easy, myself...

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Oh, come on, now. No need to call Johnny simple!

That's why I tried to embellish with the word "wonderfully"!

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by Sugar

Far as I can tell in 1987 we're lucky they didn't kill each other. I mean COME ON! The emotions that must have been running in both of them at that moment...professional commitments...personal commitments...and he's just WALKING!?!?

Eh, I think everyone got off pretty easy, myself...

[Janis_no1]

AHHH THis topic is hurting my brain.....

Trying to catch up and read this.... too much too much

[wildangel]

Im trying to picture stevie choking lindsey I dont think it would be possible unless she had on her platforms and was on a stepladder