The album that could have been...

SteveMacD · #1 02-02-2004, 01:52 AM

Okay, so I was thinking (which can be dangerous) that Fleetwood Mac hasn't really had what I'd consider to be a classic album since "Tusk." All of the albums since "Tusk" have varied in quality (and personnel). We got a taste of what a Big Mac reunion would be like with "The Dance," but we weren't given a full album of new material from the Big Mac. While I think we can all agree that "Say You Will" is Fleetwood Mac's best album since "Tusk," Christine isn't there and most (including Stevie) feel it's way too long.

However, she was on the so-so album, "Time." Her songs on "Time" really didn't do a lot for me. But then I started wondering if it was the songs or the context in which the songs appear, related to the other songs. Part of the magic of the Big Mac was that the three writers were able to balance each other out. But with that album, the other singers' material really wasn't complimentary to Christine's material. (Rather odd that Christine seems out of place on a Fleetwood Mac album.)

Which leads us to "Say You Will." There are a lot of great songs, as well as a few songs which should have been left off the album. The album, for me, just doesn't flow so well. I always skip a few tracks. It's still a great album, but not quite a classic.

With this in mind, I figured out a way to have a new Big Mac album that feels like a classic. Cut the songs I skip on "Say You Will" and add Christine's songs from "Time." Also, throw in "Twisted" for good measure. Here's how it played out:

What's The World Coming To
Hollywood (Some Other Kind Of Town)
Thrown Down
Miranda
I Do
Say You Will
Peacekeeper
Smile At You
Sooner Or Later
Steal Your Heart Away
Twisted
Bleed to Love Her
Nights In Estoril
Destiny Rules
All Over Again
Say Goodbye
Goodbye Baby

And, how does it sound? Surprisingly good. It's an album that one can listen to in one sitting, without skipping over songs (though "Sooner or Later could have been cut by a minute). Sure, there are differences in production, but the songs brilliantly flow together, in that classic, balanced Big Mac way.

DownOnRodeo · #2 02-02-2004, 05:02 AM

I think I know where you're coming from, but frankly I'm glad you weren't in charge of the track list, Marcus

RTTG and Murrow are two of SYW's standout highlights for me. They've just got so much oomph. Sooner or Later does not have oomph.

shackin'up · #3 02-02-2004, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
I think I know where you're coming from, but frankly I'm glad you weren't in charge of the track list, Marcus

RTTG and Murrow are two of SYW's standout highlights for me. They've just got so much oomph. Sooner or Later does not have oomph.

exactly,

If you want a classic, you need to have some tracks that conquer the borders of the expected, like murrow, illume, Red rover, come etc. I'm glad say you will is say you will. The only thing that misses on Say You Will is 5 tracks, and the fact that is was supposed to be a double album.

But, it is an interesting experiment to put in some christine songs, although to be honest, I don't miss them, noyt on SYW, nor in concert.

gerald

blinker12 · #4 02-02-2004, 05:13 AM

I agree with you that the album's length is a large part of what keeps it from "flowing," though of course as a rabid fan I'm thrilled to have all the tracks, especially considering Mac's current pace of one new album a decade.

Another problem is the inclusion of the kind of self-indulgent tunes that really belong on solo albums ("Come," "Murrow," "Silver Girl," "RTTG"). As fun as "Everybody Finds Out" is, I think it will sound dated very quickly, while "Smile at You" falls prey to Lindsey's overproduction. Cut those out, along with the unnecessary retread of "Bleed to Love Her," and you've got an album that's solid all the way through.
I wouldn't add any Christine tracks, though. As much as I miss her, she just wasn't a part of this project, so I think it would feel forced to include her "Time" songs.
Here's my 11-song version of SYW:

1. What's The World Coming To
2. Thrown Down
3. Miranda
4. Peacekeeper
5. Say You Will
6. Destiny Rules
7. Say Goodbye
8. Steal Your Heart Away
9. Illume
10. Red Rover
11. Goodbye Baby

(I broke up the pairing of "Say Goodbye" and "Goodbye Baby," which I found a little cutesy.)

shackin'up · #5 02-02-2004, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by blinker12
Another problem is the inclusion of the kind of self-indulgent tunes that really belong on solo albums ("Come," "Murrow," "Silver Girl," "RTTG"). As fun as "Everybody Finds Out" is, I think it will sound dated very quickly, while "Smile at You" falls prey to Lindsey's overproduction.

Sometimes I don't understand my fellow fans. If you call these tunes "not belonging"on a FM-album and self-indulged
( somebody explain to me : what the h*ll is that!!!!), then what is the titletrack of Tango in the night doing there? And Tusk on Tusk, Sara on Tusk, Pretty much all of lindsey's tunes on Tusk etcetera. Or is that album no FM album? Then I'm not a FM-fan.

If I understand the term Self-indulged well, then Fleetwood Mac is a selfindulged band. And they make self-indulged songs. So I'm a self-indulged fan.

Gerald "I'm so great" van K.

macfan 57 · #6 02-02-2004, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SteveMacD

What's The World Coming To
Hollywood (Some Other Kind Of Town)
Thrown Down
Miranda
I Do
Say You Will
Peacekeeper
Smile At You
Sooner Or Later
Steal Your Heart Away
Twisted
Bleed to Love Her
Nights In Estoril
Destiny Rules
All Over Again
Say Goodbye
Goodbye Baby

And, how does it sound? Surprisingly good. It's an album that one can listen to in one sitting, without skipping over songs (though "Sooner or Later could have been cut by a minute). Sure, there are differences in production, but the songs brilliantly flow together, in that classic, balanced Big Mac way.

That's a very interesting track list. I like it ALOT. You also got rid of the songs on SYW that I hate. It's definitely a more true Fleetwood Mac album, instead of just a couple of solo albums thrown together. I might try to re-do SYW also, just to make it more listenable.

chiliD · #7 02-02-2004, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SteveMacD
However, she was on the so-so album, "Time." Her songs on "Time" really didn't do a lot for me. But then I started wondering if it was the songs or the context in which the songs appear, related to the other songs. Part of the magic of the Big Mac was that the three writers were able to balance each other out. But with that album, the other singers' material really wasn't complimentary to Christine's material. (Rather odd that Christine seems out of place on a Fleetwood Mac album.)

So, you're saying that you've changed your opinion of Time over the course of the last decade? You were always (along with me) one of its most vocal proponents. What's up?

GypsySorcerer · #8 02-02-2004, 09:52 AM

I didn't really miss Chris much on the SYW tour (except on Don't Stop, and her harmonies on Beautiful Child & the Chain). But when I listen to SYW, as much as I love it, I find myself missing her light ballads after listening to songs like Murrow and Illume.

Quote:

As fun as "Everybody Finds Out" is, I think it will sound dated very quickly,

I think EFO already sounds dated, with those cheesy 80s synths. I'll listen to it, but I just don't really enjoy it.

But I think SYW could be a top-notch album with some tracks cut. I don't think Chris, though, would fit well on this album, even with some songs left out. Here is my dream SYW track list:

1) What's the World Coming To
2) Thrown Down
3) Miranda
4) Say You Will
5) Peace keeper
6) Come
7) Running Through the Garden
8) Say Goodbye
9) Destiny Rules
10) Steal Your Heart Away
11) Goodbye Baby

face of glass · #9 02-02-2004, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GypsySorcerer
I think EFO already sounds dated, with those cheesy 80s synths.

It's not a synth, it's Lindsey's guitar. For the record, I think the synths on "Stand Back", on the album version and every live version I've heard, are cheesier than anything on "EFO" or even Go Insane. A matter of taste, of course.

cliffdweller · #10 02-02-2004, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SteveMacD
While I think we can all agree that "Say You Will" is Fleetwood Mac's best album since "Tusk," Christine isn't there and most (including Stevie) feel it's way too long.

Which leads us to "Say You Will." There are a lot of great songs, as well as a few songs which should have been left off the album. The album, for me, just doesn't flow so well. I always skip a few tracks. It's still a great album, but not quite a classic.

Ummm....I guess I disagree with you on these two points. I don't think that Say You Will is too long, I mean, we haven't had anything new from them in quite a number of years, since Tango really, and it only makes sense that they have a lot to say, and frankly, I want as much material as I can get on a "come-lately" album from my favorite band.

Also, I think that SYW is a classic Mac album, albeit more of a Lindsey album than a Stevie one. The only gripe I have is that Stevie didn't represent herself to her fullest potential on SYW, I wish her material was a little stronger, there are some gems don't get me wrong, but I think we can all agree that this is a Lindsey album through and through. However, in the end, it's irrelevant who "shines" the most, SYW is a classic Mac album all the way, but maybe I'm easy to please!

CarneVaca · #11 02-02-2004, 10:45 AM

If I edited SYW, it would look like this:

What's the World Coming To
Murrow
Thrown Down
Miranda
Red Rover
Peacekeeper
Say You Will
Smile at You
Steal Your Heart Away
Everybody Finds Out
Say Goodbye
Love Minus Zero/No Limit
Goodbye Baby

JamieSPC · #12 02-02-2004, 11:04 AM

I always liked "Nights in Estoril," the only thing I still listen to from the "Time" album.

~Jamie

chiliD · #13 02-02-2004, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cliffdweller
...I mean, we haven't had anything new from them in quite a number of years, since Tango really...

Ummm...

Behind The Mask
Time

You're being as myopic as the OFFICIAL site. Shame on you!

strandinthewind · #14 02-02-2004, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
If I edited SYW, it would look like this:

What's the World Coming To
Murrow
Thrown Down
Miranda
Red Rover
Peacekeeper
Say You Will
Smile at You
Steal Your Heart Away
Everybody Finds Out
Say Goodbye
Love Minus Zero/No Limit
Goodbye Baby

Great minds think (almost) alike!!

I would, however, replace "What's the World Coming To" with "Bleed to Love Her" as the latter has some of LB's IMO most brilliant guitar work at the end and I just do not like the former.

I would also put LB's original PK in the record and take out the one they have now - or keep the one they have now and put SN just in the chorus and not in the melody.

My $0.02

P.S. I think "Nights in Estoril," which I love, would have fit in on SYW. So, I might put it in there as well in my perfect world.

ShangriLaTroubl · #15 02-02-2004, 11:28 AM

I'm not a big fan of Lindsey's GOS Peacekeeper...I think Stevie's vocals make it a good song......I'm glad they actually paired up vocally on the lead parts on a couple of songs...in my opinion THAT if anything is what made it have a Fleetwood Mac feel...and not just two solo albums called a Fleetwood Mac album feel....

Chris