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#76
01-30-2004, 06:33 PM
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  Rob 
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"If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head." - Winston Churchill "The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy. Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a sh*t whether you live or die. There, you feel better now? " "(Sept. 11) was a big thing for me. I was saying to liberal America, "Well, what are you offering?" And they said, "Well, we're not going to protect you, and we want some more money." That didn't interest me." - Dennis Miller 
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#77
01-30-2004, 06:39 PM
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To me, in general, the Muslim people will NEVER agree that we have done anything for them. They agree that without our need for their oil and our demonstrating to them how to get to their oil, they would not be rich nations most are. They are like thank you now get out. And, by the way, we will never respect you enough to discipline our rouge extremist until you stop all defense for Isreal. So, in general, the Arab world is thankful to us for wanting their oil (and boy do we want it!) and showing them how to develop it. But, now that we have done that they want us out. But, that is just one factor. I think the other is the 1500 or so years of Christian history wherein the Muslim empires were declining and the Christians in the name of GOD took it upon themselves to raid the Holy Land. Not that the Muslims are not guilty of doing the same type of thing before then. In sum, I agree with Carne (I think ) in that until both sides are willing not only to put aside the past wrongs both have committed and say "let's start anew and agree to respect each other" no peace will be had. I maintain that until the last drop of oil is extracted, that will never happen. Also, my experience with Muslim people is they are mostly peaceful. Yet, I know a few that frighteningly think the West is evil because our women run around in mini-skirts. I am being serious and that scares me because our religious fundamentalist say essentially the same things about them.
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 save the cheerleader - save the world Last edited by strandinthewind; 01-30-2004 at 06:44 PM..
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#78
01-30-2004, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
 Rob
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"If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head." - Winston Churchill "The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy. Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a sh*t whether you live or die. There, you feel better now? " "(Sept. 11) was a big thing for me. I was saying to liberal America, "Well, what are you offering?" And they said, "Well, we're not going to protect you, and we want some more money." That didn't interest me." - Dennis Miller
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#79
01-30-2004, 06:43 PM
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save the cheerleader - save the world
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#80
01-30-2004, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
 Rob
__________________
"If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head." - Winston Churchill "The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy. Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a sh*t whether you live or die. There, you feel better now? " "(Sept. 11) was a big thing for me. I was saying to liberal America, "Well, what are you offering?" And they said, "Well, we're not going to protect you, and we want some more money." That didn't interest me." - Dennis Miller
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#81
01-30-2004, 06:52 PM
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I am behind Bush on the Foreign Policy front. I believe in what they are trying to do. But, I have to say that Clinton was a stronger president on domestic issues, Bush's tax cuts aside. I wish they could combine the strengths of both! The less the government has a say in where our money goes, the better, IMHO. Rob
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"If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head." - Winston Churchill "The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy. Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a sh*t whether you live or die. There, you feel better now? " "(Sept. 11) was a big thing for me. I was saying to liberal America, "Well, what are you offering?" And they said, "Well, we're not going to protect you, and we want some more money." That didn't interest me." - Dennis Miller Last edited by Rob67; 01-30-2004 at 06:56 PM..
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#82
01-30-2004, 06:55 PM
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Excellent point, Carne! I agree with just about everything you've said on this and the Kerry thread on Rumours. It's so refreshing to read the opinions of Dissention and Johnny Stew and others. I've just moved from southwest Connecticut to southwest Virginia where "liberal" seems to be such a dirty word. Needless to say, I'm experiencing culture shock. This President is so awful for everyone in our country except for his corporate fat cat friends and too many middle class people fail to see this. They actually think they got a tax cut! I'm so glad I'm not the only one who sees how Bush is dividing, not uniting our country and promoting hate  . I generally disagree with Republicans when it comes to national politics (local politics is a whole other story) though I think we need balance in government so having a Democrat President and Republican congress is ok. What we have right now is a federal government that is way too far to the right. I don't know if Kerry is my favorite...I really do like them all for different reasons and will be happy no matter which wins as long as he beats Bush (even Lieberman-though I like him more as a Senator than presidential candidate, I think it's time we had a Jewish President and he is a uniter because of his centrist and often non-partisan views--there's something to be said for that)...I really do like Dean and Clark. I don't think they're duds.  You know, I was thinking...I hope that if Dean, Kerry or Edwards wins the nomination and goes on to win the presidency, they appoint Clark Secretary of Defense. If General Clark were running the pentagon, how wonderful that would be!! He is so brilliant when it comes to military planning and strategy unlike our current Defense Secretary  .(sidebar: I hate the way Rums is so rude to reporters at news conferences-- Doesn't he realize they are the only ones getting the info to the us, the taxpayers who are paying for the war and have a right to know everything as long as it doesn't compromise our national security? I mean I know sometimes the reporters ask dumb, annoying or invasive questions but he shouldn't roll his eyes at them and be sarcastic. He DOES owe the public an explanation for what he's doing and thees are the people who are bringing it to us. Anyway, that was a rant.) Well, this is the first time I've ever gotten political on the Ledge (I think). It's also the first time I've posted in a couple of months because I moved and had to settle in and get an ISP and all that. I love my new home, but it's crazy how different the politics here are. I guess I took for granted what it's like to be in a place where people have the same values that I do. It's good to be back on the Ledge! -Sonia
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"So I close my eyes softly... till I become that part of the wind that we all long for sometimes. And to those that I love like a ghost through a fog, like a charmed hour and a haunted song, and the angel... of my dreams" "All alone we suffer. Oh, to steal your heart away." Last edited by ERigby818; 01-30-2004 at 06:58 PM..
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#83
01-30-2004, 07:03 PM
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As far as promoting hate, I guess that is a matter of interpretation. I the only hate promotion seems to be coming from the Dem candidates! But anyway...Welcome back!!! Rob
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"If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head." - Winston Churchill "The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy. Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a sh*t whether you live or die. There, you feel better now? " "(Sept. 11) was a big thing for me. I was saying to liberal America, "Well, what are you offering?" And they said, "Well, we're not going to protect you, and we want some more money." That didn't interest me." - Dennis Miller
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#84
01-30-2004, 07:20 PM
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"Although the arrogance of fame lingers like a thick cloud around the famous, the sun always seems to shine for Stevie." -- Richard Dashut, 2014
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#85
01-30-2004, 08:33 PM
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I've spent summers in the south and, in general, it isn't very welcoming to liberals (no offense, Jason!). If you talk about a Democrat in a positive tone, they look at you as if you're speaking Taiwanese. And I agree with a LOT of the things you said!
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#86
01-30-2004, 08:40 PM
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 You're right and I agree with you. Bush is a tax-cut and spender.
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#87
01-30-2004, 09:26 PM
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Big surprise, eh?
Bush Won't Endorse Call for Iraq Probe 1 minute ago Add White House - AP to My Yahoo! By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites) said Friday "I want to know the facts" about any intelligence failures concerning Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s alleged cache of forbidden weapons but he declined to endorse calls for an independent investigation. The issue of an independent commission has blossomed into an election-year problem for the president, with Democrats and Republicans alike supporting the idea. Former chief weapons inspector David Kay has concluded that Iraq (news - web sites) did not possess weapons of mass destruction, which Bush had cited as a rationale for going to war against Iraq. Bush said he wants to be able to compare the administration's prewar intelligence with what will be learned by inspectors who are now searching for weapons in Iraq. There is no deadline for those inspectors, the Iraq Survey Group, to complete their work. "One thing is for certain, one thing we do know ... that Saddam Hussein was a danger, he was growing danger," the president told reporters during a brief question and answer session after a meeting with economists. Parting company with many of his fellow Republicans, Sen. John McCain said Thursday he wants an independent commission to take a sweeping look at recent intelligence failures. Some of the Democratic candidates for president said they support an independent commission. Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (news - web sites) criticized Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites), saying that he berated CIA (news - web sites) operatives because he did not like their intelligence reports. "It seems to me that the vice president of the United States therefore influenced the very reports that the president then used to decide to go to war and to ask Congress for permission to go to war," Dean said during a campaign debate Thursday night. North Carolina Sen. John Edwards (news - web sites) said his support for the Iraq war was based on years of intelligence briefings and evidence of Saddam Hussein's atrocities against his own people. He supports an independent commission "that will have credibility and that the American people will trust, about why there is this discrepancy about what we were told and what's actually been found there." Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites) said that whether Cheney berated CIA officials to shape the intelligence that he wanted is "a very legitimate question. ... There's an enormous question about the exaggeration by this administration."
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#88
01-30-2004, 11:04 PM
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#90
01-31-2004, 11:55 AM
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BINGO! Rob, have I told you how great it is to have you here posting on the Ledge?! Joe
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