When I See You Again Appreciation Post!

[dissention]

Originally posted by face of glass
“You talkin’ to me?”

Yes, I made that comment at the BuckinghamNicks.net message board. Here’s the necessary disclaimer right away: none of the following is meant to underestimate the tragedy that was 9-11.

I do think it’s humorous in its own odd way. I agree with Johnny in that it is the “best” song about those events, simply because it doesn’t address the things that happened as such. Take out what’s in the brackets (“9-11”) from the title and only the biggest fans of Stevie will be able to connect it to what happened. That makes it a good lyric.

But ok, Lindsey’s use of the goofy voices in there does appear to me as if he’s mocking Stevie’s lyrics. Especially the “ooh, it’s never-ending” bit; the voice there seems very sarcastic. Of course you may think that this is another of LB’s cheap shots and that it’s inappropriate to insert something into such a song. Just like it’s inappropriate to fart during the “Star Spangled Banner”.

I do think Les came up with a great explanation for the use of those voices. My interpretation is different; LB wanted to mock Stevie’s message momentarily. Let’s look at that particular bit in the lyrics:



You may cringe at the voices; I cringe at some of these lyrics and think that they would come off as somewhat preachy if it wasn’t for Stevie (and the manipulated voices) who sings them. She’s basically representing her own take on the whole catastrophe and it is very one-sided. She focuses on her own version of the tragedy; that of an American (or European, whichever you prefer) who now for the first time in her life faces some of the same struggles that people living in other parts of the world have suffered from for centuries. The using of words like “heartache” and “never-ending” definitely seems appropriate in a situation like that but when looked at from the viewpoint of those who are not as privileged as Americans and Europeans, it comes off as laughable. Yes, the things that happened may leave traces on her but none of them will be significant; she’ll carry on living for years to come.

LB’s using of those voices puts in a sarcastic slant; he wants to emphasize the fact that while a few thousand people may have died in New York, a lot more people died elsewhere that day and not because of “natural” reasons. On that particular day in September 2001 he must have thought along the lines of “I told you so”, like a significant amount of European newspapers did. He does not belittle the events themselves; he belittles Stevie’s experiences while knowing that most of those common Americans and Europeans who were so “shocked” by the events will once again be continuing their egotism. In short, they haven’t learned a thing.

Ok, that’s very far-fetched. But admit it, you definitely wouldn’t want to think that LB is laughing in the middle of such an “important” song. For me, though, it’s not the ultimate take on 9-11, it’s just another way of looking at it. And LB’s hints at sarcasm prove that there’s far more expressed in the track than just “common grief”.

Oh, no, someone on this board said it a while back.

I completely agree that it's the best 9/11 song because it doesn't pussyfoot around with cheesy patriotism like Bruce Springsteen and Paul McCartney; their songs made me gag and I doubt I'll ever recover because they were so bad. Throw in Toby Keith and we can forever banish the use of ipecac syrup.

But, I think your take on the voices is too much of a stretch for me to believe. They should've been left out because they cheapen the sentiment and make it sound more like an embarassment.

[CarneVaca]

The using of words like “heartache” and “never-ending” definitely seems appropriate in a situation like that but when looked at from the viewpoint of those who are not as privileged as Americans and Europeans, it comes off as laughable.

I couldn't agree with you more about the lyrics. The song is essentially drivel. It does not address the tragedy and is rather self-indulgent. Someone ought to have told Stevie this was the wrong 9/11 song to use. If you want expressions of compassion and keen observation, check out some of the songs in Springsteen's The Rising. I think Stevie's heart was in the right place, but this song misses the mark by a few miles.

And speaking of being off the mark by miles:

LB’s using of those voices puts in a sarcastic slant; he wants to emphasize the fact that while a few thousand people may have died in New York, a lot more people died elsewhere that day and not because of “natural” reasons. On that particular day in September 2001 he must have thought along the lines of “I told you so”, like a significant amount of European newspapers did.

With all due respect, that's pretty outrageous. I'll be the first one to look at our history in the Middle East and say the source of our troubles is our own misguided policy, which by no way means I am justifying terrorism. However, to deduce from Lindsey's choice of voice effects on the song that he on that day reacted with "I told you so," is outlandish. There is no evidence of such sentiments by him anywhere that I have seen. And considering his anti-violence message on other SYW songs, I seriously doubt he would have reacted with anything but compassion and shock to the events of that day, the European papers' assessment notwithstanding. I understand why some Europeans are so cynical about Americans' reaction to the tragedy, but I don't see how you could possibly equate that with Lindsey's feelings. Not unless he says so.

That Lindsey might have laughed at Stevie's reaction, considering the self-centered approach in the song, is not far-fetched. But it's highly improbable. The man has said these songs are some of her best stuff yet (an assessment with which I disagree) so let's take him at his word, at least on this.

To be sure, there are far better songs out there about 9/11, even by unknown artists. But any detection of hints of sarcasm in the song is fantasy.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by dissention
I completely agree that it's the best 9/11 song because it doesn't pussyfoot around with cheesy patriotism like Bruce Springsteen and Paul McCartney; their songs made me gag and I doubt I'll ever recover because they were so bad. Throw in Toby Keith and we can forever banish the use of ipecac syrup.

Agree on McCartney, Keith and the like. But you're way off on Bruce. He even wrote at least one song from the perspective of the terrorists. You really have to listen to get it, but it's there. One thing you cannot accuse Springsteen of is cheesy patriotism. No way.

Come to think of it, he should be running for president.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Agree on McCartney, Keith and the like. But you're way off on Bruce. He even wrote at least one song from the perspective of the terrorists. You really have to listen to get it, but it's there. One thing you cannot accuse Springsteen of is cheesy patriotism. No way.

Come to think of it, he should be running for president.

[dissention]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Agree on McCartney, Keith and the like. But you're way off on Bruce. He even wrote at least one song from the perspective of the terrorists. You really have to listen to get it, but it's there. One thing you cannot accuse Springsteen of is cheesy patriotism. No way.

Come to think of it, he should be running for president.

You're probably right; I've actually only heard two songs off of The Rising. But they weren't memorable to me, I can't even remember their names.

And about Bruce running for president...

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by dissention
You're probably right; I've actually only heard two songs off of The Rising. But they weren't memorable to me, I can't even remember their names.

And about Bruce running for president...

All is well with the world again.

[Bella Figura]

thanks Carne for putting into words what I was thinking upon reading face of glass post...

everyone spins their own interpretations of favorite songs and lyrics and rightly so, if it means that to you, it is true for you...

but anti-American sentiment subtely "snuck in" by Lindsey as an "I told you so, nanananana!!" political statement onto one of Stevie's patriotic songs seems quite far-fetched. Also considering Lindsey would then be criticizing himself 'cause last time I checked he was still an American citizen. 'course if face of glass gets a direct quote from Lindsey supporting this position, then I'm wrong...

but it is not right to mock even one death...no matter what your politically motivation but it is right to be shocked, dismayed and to feel the heartache. Even if you just witness tragedies as a live observer or just on the evening news, the heartache of a stangers death can get to any compassionate human being and it just may be so "never-ending" that you write a poem about it, which gets turned into a song.

My heart went out to the Iranian earthquake victims and so did my money but never any "i told you so" comments...

btw, just curious, what's the death toll from terrorist attacks in Finland???

[CarneVaca]

Non sequitur: Speaking of death, war and Fins. I recently saw the movie Cuckoo, which is Finnish. Brilliant. Check it out.

[Bella Figura]

is it on Netflix??? we're still going thru famed Japanese director Kirasawa's (forgive the spelling) movie catalogue...

[CarneVaca]

Yes, it's called "The Cuckoo." A little slow, but very compelling story.

[dissention]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
All is well with the world again.

[ricohv]

We are a passionate bunch, aren't we?

[Johnny Stew]

Poor Stevie... she writes a song conveying her very human reaction to what has to be the United States' greatest tragedy, dedicating it to those who lost their lives that day, and those who bravely risked theirs, and she gets called self-centered and indulgent in the process.

Meanwhile, Lindsey writes a song ("What's The World Coming To") about a big, bad record company not liking his album, and no one says a word.

What is the world coming to?

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by ricohv
We are a passionate bunch, aren't we?

Yeah, no one can accuse us Ledgies of being apathetic, can they?

[Bella Figura]

I was thinking of this all day as I read through this massive post. and I do include myself in this observation: But people who hang out on message boards instead of working for the betterment of mankind could also be called "self-centered and self-indulgent".