When Exactly Did Bob Welch Leave Fleetwood Mac?

[WalkAThinLine.]

Most accounts list the generic December 1974 as his departure date, but I'm curious exactly what day he left the band and when the band mobilized to recruit Lindsey and Stevie. Welch's last performance with the band to my understanding was December 15, 1974, so that provides roughly a two week time span of when he could have departed. Based on certain accounts, Mick contacted Keith Olsen around New Year's Eve to receive Buckingham's phone number, so I'm thinking that Bob's departure was later in the month.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by WalkAThinLine.

Most accounts list the generic December 1974 as his departure date, but I'm curious exactly what day he left the band and when the band mobilized to recruit Lindsey and Stevie. Welch's last performance with the band to my understanding was December 15, 1974, so that provides roughly a two week time span of when he could have departed. Based on certain accounts, Mick contacted Keith Olsen around New Year's Eve to receive Buckingham's phone number, so I'm thinking that Bob's departure was later in the month.

not sure it's been made public which exact date he left. i've always just assumed it was soon after that last show in dec.In that dance group interview in 97, mick had said 'there was a 5% chance' that bob might leave and chris interjected, 'i think it was a bit more than 5%' and john added, 'the writing was on the wall.' so maybe they suspected he'd be taking off... but mick heard BN while Bob was still in the band, so i wonder if that was before december...it probably was.


--Lis

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

not sure it's been made public which exact date he left. i've always just assumed it was soon after that last show in dec.In that dance group interview in 97, mick had said 'there was a 5% chance' that bob might leave and chris interjected, 'i think it was a bit more than 5%' and john added, 'the writing was on the wall.' so maybe they suspected he'd be taking off... but mick heard BN while Bob was still in the band, so i wonder if that was before december...it probably was.


--Lis

Ha ha
I never heard or remember that interview from the Dance. However there is a Bob interview on youtube that he says in his own words how much he hated working with the band and how much he could not wait to leave (I am paraphrasing of course). He also said the band hated him and resented him for the music he was making immediately after leaving Fleetwood Mac. He said the band hated his music so much that the band felt his music was going to hurt Fleetwood Mac. I sort of have a memory of Mick also describing Bob was not happy in his books. So I am surprised he said 5% chance.
On Bob's old website he would write how the McVies acted like royalty and Mick and Chris hated his talking during Bermuda Triangle and would give him side eye.
Of course once Fleetwood Mac became superstars they all loved each other again.....well at least until the mid 90s

What is amazing is how fast his replacement came. That live radio show was in December 1974? And just a few weeks later they go out and get drunk on margaritas and hire a guitarist they never played with before.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by WalkAThinLine.

Most accounts list the generic December 1974 as his departure date,

Well, here is Mick's account:

It happened after a minor incident. We were playing in Las Vegas and things were strained. It didn't seem that serious, but I could sense that something was in the air. In the kitchen after a gig, Bob sort of snapped and Chris said "F++k you" either then or later; my memories of this are hazy because it was nothing heavy. Unfortunately, it happened at the end of the tour, as we were about to make a new album. Bob simply said that he was leaving, and it wasn't a massive surprise.

"I felt like we were just going around in circles," Bob says. "Fleetwood Mac was floundering then, and the essential creative freshness had faded. I thought I needed to strike out on my own and find another context. They felt all they had to do was to add new blood. I could've stayed, but I felt that if I didn't test myself now, I'd never do it. I remember John McVie said, 'Bob, it's rough out there; you don't realize what you're throwing away for some possibility that doesn't exist.' I knew what he meant. Fleetwood Mac is a marriage you don't give it up easily. Mick tried to convince me to stay, but..."

It was almost New Year's Eve when Bob left the band. There was some upset over the latest defection John Courage destroyed an amp when he was told, emblematic of the crew's frustration with the foibles of musicians but I just said not to worry, that all would turn out well.

I rang up Keith Olsen over at Sound City and asked the name of the chap whose music and guitar-playing I had liked when I visited the studio...

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Ha ha
I never heard or remember that interview from the Dance. However there is a Bob interview on youtube that he says in his own words how much he hated working with the band and how much he could not wait to leave (I am paraphrasing of course). He also said the band hated him and resented him for the music he was making immediately after leaving Fleetwood Mac. He said the band hated his music so much that the band felt his music was going to hurt Fleetwood Mac. I sort of have a memory of Mick also describing Bob was not happy in his books. So I am surprised he said 5% chance.
On Bob's old website he would write how the McVies acted like royalty and Mick and Chris hated his talking during Bermuda Triangle and would give him side eye.
Of course once Fleetwood Mac became superstars they all loved each other again.....well at least until the mid 90s

What is amazing is how fast his replacement came. That live radio show was in December 1974? And just a few weeks later they go out and get drunk on margaritas and hire a guitarist they never played with before.

i remember him saying the band hated his album after he left (and that he took satisfaction in that!), but not that they hated *him*. that's sad if bob felt that way...but 1974 was not a good year for the band or for their marriages, so maybe everybody was just tired and cranky and getting on each other's nerves.

chris and john have both only said pretty nice things about bob, from what i recall. i wonder what they were doing that made bob think they were acting like royalty lol. maybe it was just a very obvious american/british divide in terms of behavior/mindset/expectations. or maybe bob was exhausted from doing as much as he did to try and keep the band going w the lawsuit, getting them all to move to the US etc.. mentally he was prob just done with it all.

--Lis

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

i remember him saying the band hated his album after he left (and that he took satisfaction in that!), but not that they hated *him*. that's sad if bob felt that way...but 1974 was not a good year for the band or for their marriages, so maybe everybody was just tired and cranky and getting on each other's nerves.

chris and john have both only said pretty nice things about bob, from what i recall. i wonder what they were doing that made bob think they were acting like royalty lol. maybe it was just a very obvious american/british divide in terms of behavior/mindset/expectations. or maybe bob was exhausted from doing as much as he did to try and keep the band going w the lawsuit, getting them all to move to the US etc.. mentally he was prob just done with it all.

--Lis

No I dont think the band ever "hated" Bob. But Bob was not comfortable anymore with the Brits. There is an old story that I believe was on Bob's old site that Lindsey ran into Bob while recording the White album at some club and Lindsey asked Bob, "How the hell could you stand to be around these people?"

But regardless of what happened in 1974, everyone was rich and happy by 1977. The Mac were superstars and filthy rich. Bob had a top 12 solo album with 2 charting hits. Love was in the air until it wasn't
Bob's side of the lawsuit really made Mick and the band look desperate. Bob and the band signed a royalty deal on the older albums that suddenly had new interest. In the Mac's darkest years early 90s when it looked like they may be over Bob finds out the band had renegotiated the royalties deal without him. To fight Bob was so penny pinching. The case was settled but it came from the darkest period of the band which is why the band was probably fighting over nickels.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

No I dont think the band ever "hated" Bob. But Bob was not comfortable anymore with the Brits. There is an old story that I believe was on Bob's old site that Lindsey ran into Bob while recording the White album at some club and Lindsey asked Bob, "How the hell could you stand to be around these people?"

But regardless of what happened in 1974, everyone was rich and happy by 1977. The Mac were superstars and filthy rich. Bob had a top 20 solo album with 2 charting hits. Love was in the air until it wasn't

Yeah i get a kick out of that story with lindsey. I'd imagine it must have been a bit of a head trip to try and finagle your way into the tight bonds that existed between the 3 brits....they could read each other like books and had been around long enough to prob feel a little possessive of the band and maybe distrustful or skeptical of newcomers and their contributions.

i laughed at bob's description in his Q&A about how it felt w them...can't recall exactly but along the lines of mick being like your weird cousin who spoke by making faces, john was your alcoholic uncle who you had to humor, chris was your crotchety aunt who also made crotch jokes ..... i mean i'm sure it was no picnic at times, being in the middle of everyone's moods and idiosyncrasies!

--Lis

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

In the Mac's darkest years early 90s when it looked like they may be over Bob finds out the band had renegotiated the royalties deal without him.

Was that the first seed that led to the decision not to include him in R&R Hall of Fame 1998 ceremony?

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Was that the first seed that led to the decision not to include him in R&R Hall of Fame 1998 ceremony?

Bob's wife Wendy said that Christine said that if Bob was included, that she wouldn't be attending the induction.

[aleuzzi]

Christine's tone and manner when Bob Welch was mentioned in that Dance rehearsals interview says everything. She was NOT happy with him. Mick, on the other hand, seemed compelled to mention him.

Re: the date of Bob's leaving. My guess is early-to-mid December. However, Bob was already cogitating an exit. Band lawyer Mickey Shapiro remembers Bob coming to visit him just a week after Mick Fleetwood had a consultation. The purpose of Bob's visit was to say he wanted out. Mickey was aghast at the circumstances of his new clients.

Whatever the date of his exit, it is quite clear from all accounts that Fleetwood and the McVies did NOT want Bob to leave. They had steady, modest success with Bob and didn't want to lose it. In 1974, Bob was their main link to the label and, as Mick has written in his magnum opus ;-), their "de facto manager" until Bob pushed Fleetwood and McVie to take a more active role in their own management. They had to be scared out of their minds when he quit.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

Yeah i get a kick out of that story with lindsey. I'd imagine it must have been a bit of a head trip to try and finagle your way into the tight bonds that existed between the 3 brits....they could read each other like books and had been around long enough to prob feel a little possessive of the band and maybe distrustful or skeptical of newcomers and their contributions.

i laughed at bob's description in his Q&A about how it felt w them...can't recall exactly but along the lines of mick being like your weird cousin who spoke by making faces, john was your alcoholic uncle who you had to humor, chris was your crotchety aunt who also made crotch jokes ..... i mean i'm sure it was no picnic at times, being in the middle of everyone's moods and idiosyncrasies!

--Lis

I can imagine the core trio of Brits being difficult to work with. Their communication styles and sensibilities were in stark contrast to Welch's--or Buckingham's. Given their long history together on the British music scene, they might have treated Welch as "new blood," someone who needed to come up with a lot of the musical ideas and yet they felt was low in their pecking order. Weston once called them "kingpins." If that was the case, it would have had to be maddening for Welch. By 1977, Lindsey could at least leverage his role in their huge success to gain power. And by 1980, Stevie pretty much controlled all of them with her celebrity. But Welch didn't have celebrity.

I also suspect part of Bob's frustration with the Brits had to do with how they handled band operations after the canceled tour. Mick left for Africa; John to Hawaii. A postcard from John to Clifford Davis suggests John new about the reforming of the band, which did NOT include Welch, whom Davis did not like. That might have pissed Bob off. He had worked for years with them and they just haphazardly sort of let Davis run over them.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Bob's wife Wendy said that Christine said that if Bob was included, that she wouldn't be attending the induction.

Yeah, I really find this very hard to believe. wendy was an interesting lady but a bit loopy in some of her opinions. this just seems very out of chris's character. I mean she had nearly both feet out the door w the band by then, she was done and retiring. do we honestly think she would have cared soooo much if bob showed up for 2 minutes on a stage that she would make a statement like that and then not show up? i can't wrap my head around that.

i still doubt that the Mac members 'made the decision' to exclude bob. i tend to think it was simply the RRHoF choosing the members in the 2 most successful incarnations.

--Lis

[Macfan4life]

Bob really opened doors to the band. As the first American he took lots of arrows and hard knocks from the Brits. It definitely made it easier for 2 Americans with big ideas to join the band. The core of the Mac (Mick, John, Chris) were all set in their ways. Lindsey was young and had big ideas. I can understand the friction they must of had. But success melts that away I guess. But we all change. Chris was the reluctant one to come to the states. But then she gave lots of interviews in the late 70s how much she loved California and living in the States.
When success is rampant everyone is happy. But once success for Bob ran out and he found out about renegotiated royalties behind his back would have made anyone unhappy.
I always give Stevie kudos for always remaining best friends with Bob. She never turned her back on him.

[WalkAThinLine.]

In an interview with Goldmine magazine, Stevie said the following:

Mick called us right after Bob Welch left. He never said 'do you want to audition' or 'duo you want to come over and we'll get to know each other' or anything. Right from the beginning, it was 'do you want to join?'.

The article also says that the five musicians go together for the first time at a Mexican restaurant "a couple of days" after Mick asked the duo if they were interested in joining the band. This seems to suggest a late December departure for Welch, although as other users have mentioned above, I'm sure Welch was already contemplating his exit from the band before that.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Bob really opened doors to the band. As the first American he took lots of arrows and hard knocks from the Brits. It definitely made it easier for 2 Americans with big ideas to join the band. The core of the Mac (Mick, John, Chris) were all set in their ways. Lindsey was young and had big ideas. I can understand the friction they must of had. But success melts that away I guess. But we all change. Chris was the reluctant one to come to the states. But then she gave lots of interviews in the late 70s how much she loved California and living in the States.
When success is rampant everyone is happy. But once success for Bob ran out and he found out about renegotiated royalties behind his back would have made anyone unhappy.
I always give Stevie kudos for always remaining best friends with Bob. She never turned her back on him.

oh, wow, she was best friends w bob, too??! she's got such a long list but i assume those two never had the complicated history that mick, john and chris had w bob... they had all been thru good/bad/stressful times together before L&S joined. maybe that's why stevie and bob always seemed to hit it off...by then, they were just buds enjoying their success.

--Lis