Lindsey calls Christine and Stevie solo concerts lounge acts (1984)

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Yes—I’d rather he be spiteful, petty, and bitchy than what he is now.

What I wish was that he was beyond all the fm stuff, that he just continued making albums of his own, and continued helping out younger bands…that guy puts Vegas Stevie to shame.

Tusk Lindsey would kick this Lindsey's @ss.

It's REALLY pathetic, him begging her to allow him back. My god, they're so close to dying.... go enjoy your remaining days with your loved ones.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I can only personally speak from the show I saw June 28, 1983, Pittsburgh Civic Arena. My local paper called the concert "What happened to Stevie Nicks Game Show since she kept disappearing her band seemed just as confused as her."
She could have been sick because she made cryptic comments and claimed she did not like they way she sounded on the microphone. It was a hot mess.
According to David she got better and her west coast shows were much better. The Fargo, MD show that is professionally shot on Youtube is about a week after I saw her. You see how dazed she is then in parts of it.

IMHO I don't believe Lindsey bought a ticket to see Stevie's solo show. My bet is he saw her HBO show or something or one of her mass events with other artists like the US Festival or the show she did with other acts and Tony Basil. He is clear he saw Christine from the audience but is not as specific with Stevie. If he refused to listen to Bella Donna, I cant imagine him secretly going. But that would be a hoot if he went secretly. Maybe he saw the What happened to Stevie Nicks Game Show that I saw

Hmm. I'll have to go back and listen to the Pittsburgh show. I do know that the night before that, 6/27, in Philadelphia, there was nothing 'phoned in' about it. Seriously, one of her best, and others have expressed that opinion, as well.

Of course, I have seen the Fargo show, and "dazed" is not an adjective that comes to mind for me. I seem to recall Sara and Gypsy from that show, and BATB, and my recollection is that she was engaged and present during those. We are talking about the Fargo show, though, and the quality of that is pretty low, as are the variety of angles. Perhaps you have a superior copy.

Frequently disappearing from the stage, to me, does not equate to phoning it in as much as it does to getting 'tuned up.' The WH tour was basically a nonstop party, and SN has said as much in interviews.

You may be right about him meaning the HBO or US Festival shows, rather than going to see it in-person. This is something someone should ask him, if/when he does any future meet and greets. I was too nervous when I met him a few years ago to ask anything substantive, lol.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Hmm. I'll have to go back and listen to the Pittsburgh show. I do know that the night before that, 6/27, in Philadelphia, there was nothing 'phoned in' about it. Seriously, one of her best, and others have expressed that opinion, as well.

Of course, I have seen the Fargo show, and "dazed" is not an adjective that comes to mind for me. I seem to recall Sara and Gypsy from that show, and BATB, and my recollection is that she was engaged and present during those. We are talking about the Fargo show, though, and the quality of that is pretty low, as are the variety of angles. Perhaps you have a superior copy.

Frequently disappearing from the stage, to me, does not equate to phoning it in as much as it does to getting 'tuned up.' The WH tour was basically a nonstop party, and SN has said as much in interviews.

You may be right about him meaning the HBO or US Festival shows, rather than going to see it in-person. This is something someone should ask him, if/when he does any future meet and greets. I was too nervous when I met him a few years ago to ask anything substantive, lol.

You are right about Philly. She is on fire. My guess is she and Joe stayed up all night and maybe she was ill for the next night in Pittsburgh. She sounded not great. Even though the recording is bad you can still tell something is wrong. She says after GDW, nothing can make me fell better than I did just 10 minutes ago. What does that mean? She is ill? She got bad news? Kim served her divorce papers? Who knows. She stops the concert at some point to rearrange floor speakers by herself.
If you don't think she looks dazed in Largo then we have a difference of opinion. Look at her introduction to Leather and Lace. She expresses her band's concern that she disappeared backstage and relates herself to a captain of a ship. You can see that her face is numb and she is high as a kite which is why that professionally shot show never saw the light of day. Wild Heart shows were hit or miss like the RAL tour. Its been a consensus here that the first part of the tour was not great.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

i think my CD had a sticker that said that too ! ahh, the old days of buying CDs in Sam Goody...

anyway that's true what you said about Lb probably not being a good motivator...he seemed a little too intense and brittle about everything, and perhaps a bit arrogant. i have an old interview from around 88 w john, chris (and maybe Rick vito?)-- where chris was sort of explaining how LB left because he wasn't happy etc and things w the new members were going well... and john was sort of awkwardly hemming and hawing about how previously 'certain people' were 'acting 'holier than thou,' and how things in the studio had been difficult , not really being clear w what he meant until chris told him, 'just say it how it is, john.' and THEN he finally said 'certain people started preaching....which i don't think is music's message.' i'm assuming he was talking about LB, who must have been coming across as an arrogant ass. (although to be fair he was working the hardest on TITN, along w chris, so it makes sense that he may have been frustrated at everyone else slacking off and being weighed down by their own issues and addictions.)

but anyway, i think there were times when he was not a particularly good motivator!

--Lis

He did an interview with Bass Player during the Time era and flat out said that he didn’t like how Lindsey was always telling him what to play instead of letting him put his own artistic stamp on the music.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Leadership, leadership, leadership.

Being the "architect" of the Fleetwood Mac sound, as the sticker on the OOTC CD said when I bought it, he was kind of the leader of the band, in that respect.

But throughout my professional career, I'm convinced that a good leader should be what coaches always taught me: he motivates, not imposes. The best way to convince your team is thru motivation. I'm not saying Lindsey was 100% an imposer, and not that the others were 100% victims. But I think the ability to motivate was weak in him.

that's why in many ways Mick has always been and still is the 'leader' of this band... he's the rah-rah cheerleader even though some of them get pissy about it. He's the one who ultimately stays in touch with everyone and tries to figure out how they can make it all work when everyone else is in their stubborn corners. For all his faults (and he has plenty) each and every member of this toxic tribe has said Mick is the glue that holds them together (even if sometimes tenuously) and I think there's truth in that.

I do wonder if Lindsey just feels like he wants to make amends or needs to make amends for some of his bitchy, controlling past. He says something about that in the SYW doc... 'making up for how things were' and he gets teary. Though Stevie remained and remains skeptical... She's referenced it interviews since and she wrote that part in You May Be The One about it... "you may cry the tears, but the tears aren't really for me, you say it's taken years, years of regret and pain...."

[WalkAThinLine.]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

He did an interview with Bass Player during the Time era and flat out said that he didn’t like how Lindsey was always telling him what to play instead of letting him put his own artistic stamp on the music.

Do you have the pdf of those pages for the John McVie interview? I would be curious to read it.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by WalkAThinLine.

Do you have the pdf of those pages for the John McVie interview? I would be curious to read it.

I would too! not sure if i ever saw that one. although john has said several times there was some butting heads and friction between him and LB. and Lb has said 'there was never much of a rapport with John.'

--Lis

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

I would too! not sure if i ever saw that one. although john has said several times there was some butting heads and friction between him and LB. and Lb has said 'there was never much of a rapport with John.'

--Lis

And that blame goes to Lindsey. John is a fantastic bass player. His lines are instantly recognizable. So many fm songs would be far less without him. He is a serious link between eras and changes in taste. The bass in Little Lies, for instance, shines through all the slick production gloss and forms an unmistakable bridge with older projects.

I once read in one of this site’s q/a that Ken Caillat — or was it Keith Olsen — thought John’s playing was too busy. I’d say John ignores LA-session player approaches that prioritize guitar and keys and vocals over a creative and driving rhythm.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

And that blame goes to Lindsey. John is a fantastic bass player. His lines are instantly recognizable. So many fm songs would be far less without him. He is a serious link between eras and changes in taste. The bass in Little Lies, for instance, shines through all the slick production gloss and forms an unmistakable bridge with older projects.

I once read in one of this site’s q/a that Ken Caillat — or was it Keith Olsen — thought John’s playing was too busy. I’d say John ignores LA-session player approaches that prioritize guitar and keys and vocals over a creative and driving rhythm.

Well, and who wants to take orders from some newbie, 4 years your junior, telling you what you're supposed to play?

I mean, Lindsey's vision is what made them superstars, but I totally get how John felt.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

i have an old interview from around 88 w john, chris (and maybe Rick vito?)-- where chris was sort of explaining how LB left because he wasn't happy etc and things w the new members were going well... and john was sort of awkwardly hemming and hawing about how previously 'certain people' were 'acting 'holier than thou,' and how things in the studio had been difficult , not really being clear w what he meant until chris told him, 'just say it how it is, john.' and THEN he finally said 'certain people started preaching....which i don't think is music's message.' i'm assuming he was talking about LB,

The interviews I saw with John telling about the butting heads and friction between him and LB, I thought he referred to the early years of this lineup. But since that interview was in '88, it's obvious old habits never went away.

I also remember hearing the audio when John admitted he quietly said to Lindsey "I think you'd better leave now", on August 7 at Christine house. And then he laughed saying "but I meant leave the house, not the band!"

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by WalkAThinLine.

Do you have the pdf of those pages for the John McVie interview? I would be curious to read it.

I wish. I found the cover when trying to find the transcript of the interview. I don’t think I have the magazine anymore. A bunch of stuff of mine got tossed out over twenty years ago.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Well, and who wants to take orders from some newbie, 4 years your junior, telling you what you're supposed to play?

John had had an actual noteworthy career. He was the bass player on the album that saw Eric Clapton go from being a hotshot guitarist in a club band to being one of the biggest guitarists on the planet, and the album that first introduced the Gibson Les Paul through a cranked Marshall sound. And then John had been the bassist for one of the bigger bands in Europe in the late 60s.

Lindsey might have had vision, but it was entirely too rigid. John’s bass on SHN blows away what Lindsey did by a country mile.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Lindsey might have had vision, but it was entirely too rigid. John’s bass on SHN blows away what Lindsey did by a country mile.

You beat me to it. I always site the earlier version of SHN as a case in point. The bass lines there are fantastic.

[bombaysaffires]

John's bass is one of the major things that transform Stevie's songs. One glaring thing missing on her solo records is his playing.

[soul_drifter333]

Anyone who's ever had a job deals with these same issues. The Mac may be a little more intense since they travel together - in luxury no less and very well paid. Lindsey was the one with the most ideas and visions in the way he wanted things to sound. Sometimes it worked (1st 4 albums) and sometimes it failed (SYW, SWS), but everyone in the workplace has to work with different personailty types and some of them are difficult at verious times.

Originally Posted by Villavic

The interviews I saw with John telling about the butting heads and friction between him and LB, I thought he referred to the early years of this lineup. But since that interview was in '88, it's obvious old habits never went away.

I also remember hearing the audio when John admitted he quietly said to Lindsey "I think you'd better leave now", on August 7 at Christine house. And then he laughed saying "but I meant leave the house, not the band!"