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  #121  
Old 12-20-2003, 03:52 PM
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gldstwmn gldstwmn is offline
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Originally posted by CarneVaca
I will not make the mistake of calling Dean a liberal. He really is nothing close. I have serious issues with some of his positions, particularly Israel
None of them vary to any great degree on this issue.
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  #122  
Old 12-20-2003, 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by strandinthewind

In sum, I think the Patriot Act is a bad thing in application. I cannot, however, think of a better alternative.
This is America! There's got to be a better alternative!
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  #123  
Old 12-20-2003, 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by gldstwmn
None of them vary to any great degree on this issue.
ITA - esp. the Democrats. The Democrats must win New York, which means they must win the Jewish vote. Therefore, they are never going to piss the Jewish vote off by making Isreal do something positive. Instead, we have these accords and summits which, so far, have been mostly iffeffective in acheiving any lasting peace.
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  #124  
Old 12-20-2003, 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by gldstwmn
This is America! There's got to be a better alternative!
You said sister. I think maybe they could just rely on the old system. I mean it has worked fairly well for about 200 years. Moreover, none of these new tactics would have made the govt. realize what it had in the pre 9/11 evidence, albeit the consolidation of the information gathering should be a big step forward.
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  #125  
Old 12-21-2003, 10:52 AM
Rob67 Rob67 is offline
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Originally posted by gldstwmn
Could you explain to me exactly what the Patriot Act does?

Yes.

Rob
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"If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head."
- Winston Churchill

"The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy. Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a sh*t whether you live or die. There, you feel better now? "

"(Sept. 11) was a big thing for me. I was saying to liberal America, "Well, what are you offering?" And they said, "Well, we're not going to protect you, and we want some more money." That didn't interest me."
- Dennis Miller
Last edited by Rob67; 12-21-2003 at 12:31 PM..
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  #126  
Old 12-21-2003, 01:31 PM
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Yes.

Rob
Smart ass!
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  #127  
Old 12-21-2003, 05:37 PM
Rob67 Rob67 is offline
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Originally posted by dissention
Smart ass!

Who me??!?!

Rob
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"If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head."
- Winston Churchill

"The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy. Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a sh*t whether you live or die. There, you feel better now? "

"(Sept. 11) was a big thing for me. I was saying to liberal America, "Well, what are you offering?" And they said, "Well, we're not going to protect you, and we want some more money." That didn't interest me."
- Dennis Miller
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  #128  
Old 12-21-2003, 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by strandinthewind

In sum, I think the Patriot Act is a bad thing in application. I cannot, however, think of a better alternative.
Apparently the Justice Department can. They are drafting Domestic Security Enhancement Act AKA Patriot Act II.

Here are the highlights:

The act allows the government to:

* Conduct domestic wiretapping without court order for 15 days following a congressional authorization of use of force or an attack on the United States.

* Secretly detain citizens.

* Deport any alien, including green-card holders, who are convicted of drug possession or an aggravated felony.

* Access a citizen's credit reports without a subpoena.

* Abolish federal court "consent decrees" that limit police surveillance of non-criminal organizations and public events.

* Criminalize the use of encryption software in the commission or planning of a felony.

* Apply strict gag rules to those subpoenaed by a grand jury.

* Collect DNA from suspected terrorists and indeed from any individual whose DNA might assist terror investigations.

* Extend authorization periods for secret wiretaps and Internet surveillance.

* Ease restrictions on the use of secret evidence.

For the full article you can go here:

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0...7636%2C00.html
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  #129  
Old 12-22-2003, 06:37 AM
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Originally posted by gldstwmn
Apparently the Justice Department can. They are drafting Domestic Security Enhancement Act AKA Patriot Act II.

Here are the highlights:

The act allows the government to:

* Conduct domestic wiretapping without court order for 15 days following a congressional authorization of use of force or an attack on the United States.

* Secretly detain citizens.

* Deport any alien, including green-card holders, who are convicted of drug possession or an aggravated felony.

* Access a citizen's credit reports without a subpoena.

* Abolish federal court "consent decrees" that limit police surveillance of non-criminal organizations and public events.

* Criminalize the use of encryption software in the commission or planning of a felony.

* Apply strict gag rules to those subpoenaed by a grand jury.

* Collect DNA from suspected terrorists and indeed from any individual whose DNA might assist terror investigations.

* Extend authorization periods for secret wiretaps and Internet surveillance.

* Ease restrictions on the use of secret evidence.

For the full article you can go here:

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0...7636%2C00.html
The vast majority of those are so "Big Brother" it is terrifying, esp. when you consider that history demonstrates "they" will stretch the definition of suspected terrorist or terrorist activities far beyond your basic plane hijacker.
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  #130  
Old 12-22-2003, 06:53 AM
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I am getting Dissention, Goldie, and Carne one for Christmas

http://oas.foxnews.com/RealMedia/ads...66653664616330

That and a box of darts
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  #131  
Old 12-22-2003, 08:17 AM
Rob67 Rob67 is offline
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Have a Merry Christmas my Liberal and Conservative\Fleetwood Mac friends!



Rob
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"If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head."
- Winston Churchill

"The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy. Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a sh*t whether you live or die. There, you feel better now? "

"(Sept. 11) was a big thing for me. I was saying to liberal America, "Well, what are you offering?" And they said, "Well, we're not going to protect you, and we want some more money." That didn't interest me."
- Dennis Miller
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  #132  
Old 12-22-2003, 09:27 AM
CarneVaca CarneVaca is offline
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Originally posted by strandinthewind
I am getting Dissention, Goldie, and Carne one for Christmas

http://oas.foxnews.com/RealMedia/ads...66653664616330

That and a box of darts
Oh my God! It actually exists!

Thanks, Strand. Your generosity is unmatched. Hey, shouldn't you be in bed with a major hangover right now?
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  #133  
Old 12-22-2003, 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by strandinthewind
I am getting Dissention, Goldie, and Carne one for Christmas

http://oas.foxnews.com/RealMedia/ads...66653664616330

That and a box of darts
I said I wanted something sparkly.
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  #134  
Old 12-22-2003, 01:12 PM
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gldstwmn gldstwmn is offline
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Originally posted by Rob67
Have a Merry Christmas my Liberal and Conservative\Fleetwood Mac friends!



Rob
Happy holidays!
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  #135  
Old 12-22-2003, 01:16 PM
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estranged4life estranged4life is offline
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Originally posted by Rob67
Have a Merry Christmas my Liberal and Conservative\Fleetwood Mac friends!



Rob
it seems us "independents" are always getting left out, Even during the holidays!!!


Brian j.
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