Why did Stevie have the abortion?

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Please. I doubt Stevie's children would have had a "life of hell." If anything they might have been raised by a nanny and a little neglected by their mom, but I don't think life would be miserable for them.

Michele

They could have fetal alcohol syndrome or brain damage from drugs...

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I highly doubt the song Goodbye Baby is a literal translation as to an abortion. Stevie would never write so bluntly. Its a song about an end of a relationship. The song sara was about the abortion. There is an interview she did in 1991 where she admitted if she had the baby and it was a girl, her name would be sara. The spooky part of Sara live was the added phrase "and then a heartbeat and you never really die." The context of those lyrics are pretty shocking. I know today she says Sara is about Mick and he definitely was part of it.

So far as Goodbye Baby goes? I don't even think it has to necessarily about Henley's child, though I can see why people might assume that. I think it IS a song about the loss of a baby, though.

Q: Were there any emotional moments from the band like where Lindsey said that it almost made him want to cry that made the band emotional watching playbacks?
A: there were many emotional moments between the band members. obviously the scene were (sic) Lindsey sheds a tear or two talking to Stevie about how much this project means to him. one of the more emotional moments made it to film and that was when Stevie and Lindsey recorded “Goodbye Baby”. That was shot very quietly late at night and due to the subject matter, was a very private and personal moment between those two.

Some more comments, both about Henley, that child, children in general, that may be of interest here...

Don Henley said this in August 1991 in GQ:

Henley’s prodigious romantic escapades would include an affair with Stevie Nicks, who “I believe to the best of my knowledge became pregnant by me. And she named the [unborn] kid Sara, and she had an abortion and then wrote the song of the same name to the spirit of the aborted baby. I was building my house at the time, and there’s a line in the song that says ‘And when you build your house, call me.’”

In February 1992, a British music magazine called Vox published an interview with Stevie where the article says this:

But now there is remorse at the havoc her abortions have wreaked on her psyche. “To give up four babies is to give up a lot that would be here now. So that bothers me, a lot, and really breaks my heart. But they’re gone, so…” She composes herself. “But I couldn’t have because I was too busy. And I had all these commitments.” She wants to adopt, but age and single-parenthood are against her. “I’ve also thought about having one myself but I’m booked up for the next four years. I don’t know if, at my age, I can get pregnant right away, do an album at the same time, have a baby, promote an album, go out on tour with the baby. So I’m going back and forth in my mind. At 43 years old, my time clock is ticking, so I can’t afford to wait around for very long.” Surely these are the same excuses she made on the last four occasions — with two important differences. There is no obvious candidate for the father, and even if there were, the decision totally remains in her hands.

This is what Stevie said to Mary Turner about Don in her Off the Record interview in 1994 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=van9uyR9ksc). Mary asks her whether she would consider writing an autobiography one day and Stevie replies:

The real scoop is in my head. And the real scoop is written in very coded poetry and journal entries and - y’know, over the last - since 1975. And some of the things - I mean, like - Don Henley. I can’t - I - he blew it on the fact that I, that I had an abortion. He told a big magazine that. So it’s like ‘Well, I guess I could write my story about me and Don now, because Don accidentally let the whole cat out of the bag to, like, Vanity Fair or something. So there are things that I could write about, y’know, but there are a lot of things that I couldn’t. See, I would never have told that. I would never have told the world that. You know, ninety-two phone calls from Don and a hundred apologies later, but the fact is that, y’know - well, now that story’s out now. But the story behind it isn’t written. What really happened isn’t written. So that’s the story that everybody has to wait for.

Stevie has contradicted herself on the issue of kids. She’s even done it within the same interview and she’s aware of that contradiction. Take that famous ‘I didn’t come here to be a mother’ spiel from the 1983 innerview. Minutes earlier she’d just exactly this:

"I think I probably write down the conflict of ‘Oh, yes, I do want to be in love’ and ‘Yes, I do want to be a loving, loving person’ and ‘Yes, I do want to be, you know, the mother of many children’ but at the same time there is part of me that says that I’m also Lillian Hellman and I want to write the great novel of all time. And I want to go on the beach with my silent typewriter"

The very stringent ‘I CHOSE ART OVER CHILDREN/MARRIAGE’ became quite a bit more prevalent from the mid-nineties onwards, I feel. I mean, she said this at one point:

"I definitely want to have a baby in the next four years. For sure. I want to have one or two children and I don’t want to wait any further than say 34." (She’s 29 now). By that time, Stevie hopes to be living in a pretty little house somewhere up in the mountains with her man, a piano and tape recorder.

And this came even later - the adoption thing was talked about a number of times:

”I don’t regret the rest of it at all, but I do regret the fact that I didn’t stop to have a baby,” says Nicks of her 15 years of rock- and-roll adventure. ”I’m going to try to adopt a little girl in January when I’ll have more time (she’s presently on tour promoting Fleetwood Mac’s current Behind the Mask album). I’m certainly ready for it, and I’m good with children. And then I just may have one myself after that, if the right man walks into my life.” Nicks, who has been once married and divorced, wants a girl. ”I think I’ll probably call her Lillian Rebecca,” she says. ”She’ll be loved, and she’ll be the most important thing in my life — more than music, Fleetwood Mac, solo albums or anything else.”

Mick said this publicly in 1990:

"Stevie has a very successful career of her own, and she wanted to devote more time to it. And she wants to adopt a child and slow her life down."

One last thing. Though I’m sure she is mostly at peace and enjoys the freedom she has, she does display a quite unusual (?) possessiveness towards Lindsey’s children in what she’s said about them in the past (‘I feel like she’s mine also’, ‘I insist on being part of her life’, ‘I get them too’), and discussing him WITH his children led to her the ‘Oh, Stevie, you made a mistake’ self-recrimination/regret, something you don’t hear very often with her. Every single time she talks about her and Lindsey’s alternate universe potential OTHER life (ie. if they’d stayed in San Francisco) it’s ALWAYS: marriage, kids, and music. Every time.

"We’re still able to make music together. So apart from being married and having our own family, what more could Lindsey and I have asked for?"

Maybe the kind of fame and career she envisioned for herself (or even that she has) don’t always seem compatible with her own family in her own mind, but I think a lot of the time she pushes the ‘NO PARTNER OR KIDS - I AM AN ARTIST!’ it is ridiculous. She knows they’re not mutually exclusive and got very cross when Sheryl decided to tell Oprah that that’s pretty much what Stevie had told her.

"She also did tell me not to have babies cos you’ll never write a great song again."

"I DID NOT! I DID NOT!!!"

"You did say I’d write a lot less songs."

"I did NOT say thaaat! Sheryl Crow. You’re grounded."

Stevie was sooo indignant, bless her. The big I CHOSE TO DO ART OVER MARRIAGE/CHILDREN spiel became a lot stronger from the mid-nineties onwards and sometimes when she does it, I just have to roll my eyes. Roll my eyes ALONG with her, actually. Look at the primary regret, the first thing it took away, and the almost afterthought of music. And the ‘blah blah blah’? Check that tone. Some of her spiel doesn't work for me, in light of everything.

"And I have no regrets in my life. Except one. And that’s that eight years. Because during that eight years, as much as I say to people, you know, ‘I have chosen not to have a boyfriend, I chose not to have kids, I’ve chosen to follow my muse and be an artist’ and all that blah, blah, blah, but during that eight years which was late 30s to like 45 who knows what could’ve happened during that eight years. I might’ve met someone. I might’ve even had a baby. So I will go to my grave angry at that man for that because he took 8 years of the prime of my life away. I could’ve done 2 or 3 more Fleetwood Mac records. I could’ve maybe done 2 or 3 more solo records. Think of the music that could’ve been made during those eight years.”

[twinmatrix]

^

Thank you for the big post, very interesting read!

I do wonder why people blame the coke and alcohol for her past slutty behavior.

In my drug phase coke never made me horny, nor do I know anyone else on which it had this effect. Ever. It just made me want to talk a lot, followed by fits of anger and anxiety when the effect wore off. If anything, from experience coke is an anti-sex drug. You take it and lose any desire for fornicating. You just feel giddy, happy and energetic and you want to talk and smile and dance around.

If anything, mephedrone, mdma, speed, ecstasy, etc. are drugs that make you want to have sex, especially in combination with alcohol. But I don't even know if those were circulating at the time. And even then it's completely circumstantial. If you're not already in a "horny" mood, it can make you want to just lie down and fall asleep.

I'm kinda surprised to hear how slutty Stevie was back in the day. I'm glad she's a better person now. I'm not a fan of the old drug abusing Stevie, but I love the wise modern Stevie. She's an inspiration.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by twinmatrix

^

Thank you for the big post, very interesting read!

I do wonder why people blame the coke and alcohol for her past slutty behavior.

In my drug phase coke never made me horny, nor do I know anyone else on which it had this effect. Ever. It just made me want to talk a lot, followed by fits of anger and anxiety when the effect wore off. If anything, from experience coke is an anti-sex drug. You take it and lose any desire for fornicating. You just feel giddy, happy and energetic and you want to talk and smile and dance around.

If anything, mephedrone, mdma, speed, ecstasy, etc. are drugs that make you want to have sex, especially in combination with alcohol. But I don't even know if those were circulating at the time. And even then it's completely circumstantial. If you're not already in a "horny" mood, it can make you want to just lie down and fall asleep.

I'm kinda surprised to hear how slutty Stevie was back in the day. I'm glad she's a better person now. I'm not a fan of the old drug abusing Stevie, but I love the wise modern Stevie. She's an inspiration.

Nobody talks about Don Henley or Mick being sluts... Sure they slept with more people.

[SisterNightroad]

Originally Posted by twinmatrix

^

Thank you for the big post, very interesting read!

I do wonder why people blame the coke and alcohol for her past slutty behavior.

In my drug phase coke never made me horny, nor do I know anyone else on which it had this effect. Ever. It just made me want to talk a lot, followed by fits of anger and anxiety when the effect wore off. If anything, from experience coke is an anti-sex drug. You take it and lose any desire for fornicating. You just feel giddy, happy and energetic and you want to talk and smile and dance around.

If anything, mephedrone, mdma, speed, ecstasy, etc. are drugs that make you want to have sex, especially in combination with alcohol. But I don't even know if those were circulating at the time. And even then it's completely circumstantial. If you're not already in a "horny" mood, it can make you want to just lie down and fall asleep.

I'm kinda surprised to hear how slutty Stevie was back in the day. I'm glad she's a better person now. I'm not a fan of the old drug abusing Stevie, but I love the wise modern Stevie. She's an inspiration.

I don't think it's our business how Stevie behaved back in her day.
Besides that, a lot of other rockstars, Mick included, weren't certainly saints but nobody complains about Robert Plant, Gene Simmons, Mick Jagger or Steven Tyler's number of partners.
Even other rockstar women like Grace Slick, Debbie Harry or Joann Jett were notoriously having sex with lot of partners but nobody ever questioned it, I wonder why Stevie's sex life gets to be inspected.

By the way drugs doesn't have the same effects on everyone, coke is a stimulating substance, it's strange that it didn't have exciting effect on you. I know of someone in rehabilitation that claims that coke made her make out with an intimate friend's fiancee and she didn't even like him.

Have you ever considered that Stevie wasn't "Horny" or "Slutty" but just wanted to have sex with men that she actually liked?
If a young Don Henley wanted to have sex with me I'd offer him even my ears' hole.

[bombaysaffires]

I have to respectfully disagree with you Nicole...

I don't think the reason recording Goodbye Baby was so intimate and personal between Stevie and Lindsey was because it was about a baby at all….I think it's about her leaving him and all that baggage around that. I think doing that song together was part of getting some sort of closure finally around all that-- almost like her apologizing a little and acknowledging how much she'd hurt him even though she needed to go.

Someone posted once how the lines about 'don't take me to the tower/and take my child away' are reference to a story (like Rhiannon or Wide Sargasso Sea are inspired by actual stories she read)….but now I forget which story.

[twinmatrix]

Originally Posted by SisterNightroad

I don't think it's our business how Stevie behaved back in her day.
Besides that, a lot of other rockstars, Mick included, weren't certainly saints but nobody complains about Robert Plant, Gene Simmons, Mick Jagger or Steven Tyler's number of partners.
Even other rockstar women like Grace Slick, Debbie Harry or Joann Jett were notoriously having sex with lot of partners but nobody ever questioned it, I wonder why Stevie's sex life gets to be inspected.

By the way drugs doesn't have the same effects on everyone, coke is a stimulating substance, it's strange that it didn't have exciting effect on you. I know of someone in rehabilitation that claims that coke made her make out with an intimate friend's fiancee and she didn't even like him.

Have you ever considered that Stevie wasn't "Horny" or "Slutty" but just wanted to have sex with men that she actually liked?
If a young Don Henley wanted to have sex with me I'd offer him even my ears' hole.

Hehe, I know drugs have different effects on people. I know a lot of people who love weed, for me, it just makes me sick and throw up. But I've never heard of anyone ever saying that coke has a physically stimulating effect on them (in a sexual way). Interesting to hear about your friend. At least when I lived in London, it's not even considered a party drug, and my ex house mate was close friends with a dealer so I saw a lot of high strangers coming in and out of my apartment lol.

Anyhow, I don't even know half of these people. I'm really not into rock n roll scene, I just love Stevie. Well, post-Klonopin. She's an amazing, emotionally intellectual person now.

Have you ever considered that Stevie wasn't "Horny" or "Slutty" but just wanted to have sex with men that she actually liked?

That's pretty much the definition of being horny, lol. And of course it was also with married people, hence the "slutty" term, but I digress... I'm not being judgmental, I used to be like that myself, but I do think it's funny people use "alcohol and drugs" as an excuse in that context for sleeping around. Cocaine rarely works as a sexually motivating drug. It's a personal choice to sleep around so much. Only if, say, the person was addicted to mephedrone, then yeah you can blame the drug almost entirely for the behavior.

Also your ear hole? Sounds respectful towards your body, hahaha.

[SisterNightroad]

Originally Posted by twinmatrix

Hehe, I know drugs have different effects on people. I know a lot of people who love weed, for me, it just makes me sick and throw up. But I've never heard of anyone ever saying that coke has a physically stimulating effect on them (in a sexual way). Interesting to hear about your friend. At least when I lived in London, it's not even considered a party drug, and my ex house mate was close friends with a dealer so I saw a lot of high strangers coming in and out of my apartment lol.

Anyhow, I don't even know half of these people. I'm really not into rock n roll scene, I just love Stevie. Well, post-Klonopin. She's an amazing, emotionally intellectual person now.



That's pretty much the definition of being horny, lol. And of course it was also with married people, hence the "slutty" term, but I digress... I'm not being judgmental, I used to be like that myself, but I do think it's funny people use "alcohol and drugs" as an excuse in that context for sleeping around. Cocaine rarely works as a sexually motivating drug. It's a personal choice to sleep around so much. Only if, say, the person was addicted to mephedrone, then yeah you can blame the drug almost entirely for the behavior.

Also your ear hole? Sounds respectful towards your body, hahaha.

I didn't say it was a friend, I'm a psychology student so I get to have contact with people with psychologic issues.
You have to understand that addicted people have a personality that's inclined to having dependences, in fact an addiction is above all psychological, not just physical, that's also why not all people that abuse drugs develope a drug addiction and the majority of people with addiction issues have more of an addiction altogether.
So it's not like Stevie was slutty and an always horny-monster before klonopin and now that she's redeemed herself she's magically become "an emotionally intellectual person", she's always been all these things. Probably if she wasn't these things, she wouldn't have so many lovers, she wouldn't have been a drug addicted and wouldn't have written such beautiful songs and you wouldn't have loved her.

It's certainly true that sleeping around it's a personal choice, but it's true that drugs lead to impulsive behaviours people that already have a tendency to do impulsive things. You are being judgemental because you are presuming a lot of things, like that people excuse distructive behaviour with drugs, that Stevie always wanted to have sex like a horny-monster, that the married men with whom she's had sex aren't to blame and that she magically changed from a person tipe to another.

The "ear hole" was a joke, but it still would be respectful to my body if it's a mutual decision.

[SpyNote]

I wonder if Stevie started using birth control after this experience.

I also wonder if it was more than coincidence that "Sleeping Angel" was played during the abortion scene of Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

[twinmatrix]

Originally Posted by SisterNightroad

I didn't say it was a friend, I'm a psychology student so I get to have contact with people with psychologic issues.
You have to understand that addicted people have a personality that's inclined to having dependences, in fact an addiction is above all psychological, not just physical, that's also why not all people that abuse drugs develope a drug addiction and the majority of people with addiction issues have more of an addiction altogether.
So it's not like Stevie was slutty and an always horny-monster before klonopin and now that she's redeemed herself she's magically become "an emotionally intellectual person", she's always been all these things. Probably if she wasn't these things, she wouldn't have so many lovers, she wouldn't have been a drug addicted and wouldn't have written such beautiful songs and you wouldn't have loved her.

It's certainly true that sleeping around it's a personal choice, but it's true that drugs lead to impulsive behaviours people that already have a tendency to do impulsive things. You are being judgemental because you are presuming a lot of things, like that people excuse distructive behaviour with drugs, that Stevie wanting to have sex equals to her having sex straight away, and that the married men with whom she's had sex aren't to blame.


The "ear hole" was a joke, but it still would be respectful to my body if it's a mutual decision.

I see your point but I can now only imagine a penis in your ear.

[SisterNightroad]

Originally Posted by twinmatrix

I see your point but I can now only imagine a penis in your ear.

I know, I heard this joke from one of those comedies full of naughty jokes and I never forgot it.
By the way, how can you imagine my ear if you never saw it?

[SisterNightroad]

Originally Posted by SpyNote

I wonder if Stevie started using birth control after this experience.

I also wonder if it was more than coincidence that "Sleeping Angel" was played during the abortion scene of Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

I don't remember that scene, but the writer (Cameron Crowe) is also a famous rock journalist that interviewed at least two times in person Fleetwood Mac for Rolling Stone.
He's become a successful director, he directed "Say anything...", "Jerry Maguire" and "Almost famous"

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by SpyNote

I wonder if Stevie started using birth control after this experience.

I also wonder if it was more than coincidence that "Sleeping Angel" was played during the abortion scene of Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

You have to be kidding!

[teedeerocks]

Originally Posted by SisterNightroad

I didn't say it was a friend, I'm a psychology student so I get to have contact with people with psychologic issues.
You have to understand that addicted people have a personality that's inclined to having dependences, in fact an addiction is above all psychological, not just physical, that's also why not all people that abuse drugs develope a drug addiction and the majority of people with addiction issues have more of an addiction altogether.
So it's not like Stevie was slutty and an always horny-monster before klonopin and now that she's redeemed herself she's magically become "an emotionally intellectual person", she's always been all these things. Probably if she wasn't these things, she wouldn't have so many lovers, she wouldn't have been a drug addicted and wouldn't have written such beautiful songs and you wouldn't have loved her.

It's certainly true that sleeping around it's a personal choice, but it's true that drugs lead to impulsive behaviours people that already have a tendency to do impulsive things. You are being judgemental because you are presuming a lot of things, like that people excuse distructive behaviour with drugs, that Stevie always wanted to have sex like a horny-monster, that the married men with whom she's had sex aren't to blame and that she magically changed from a person tipe to another.

The "ear hole" was a joke, but it still would be respectful to my body if it's a mutual decision.

Are you saying that Stevie has and always has had an addictive personality regardless of how it manifests itself? If so,I totally agree.Addicts are all or nothing.They don't just like things,they loovvvveee them and can't get enough.I heard her say in an interview that her grandfather was an alcoholic and everyone in her family loves to gamble except her "so they can't say anything about what I do".I think genetics play a huge part in Stevie's makeup(as it does in everyone elses too).She blames her doctor for the Klonopin problem but I think it was just a substitution for the other addiction(coke).We all know Stevie loves to play the "blame - game"-nothing is ever really her fault.I've never heard her say "aw man I effed it all up".But she has no problem telling the world how someone else effed it up.This is just my opinion,of course.

[SisterNightroad]

Originally Posted by teedeerocks

Are you saying that Stevie has and always has had an addictive personality regardless of how it manifests itself? If so,I totally agree.Addicts are all or nothing.They don't just like things,they loovvvveee them and can't get enough.

Yes, that's a simpler way to put it.
But I'd like to point out that it's a universal human disposition trait, not just an addictive people's trait and it's just more susceptible in them.

I heard her say in an interview that her grandfather was an alcoholic and everyone in her family loves to gamble except her "so they can't say anything about what I do".I think genetics play a huge part in Stevie's makeup (as it does in everyone elses too).

Genetics has certainly its weight, but the importance of the family surroundings during the development is certainly more important.
Usually a genetic psychological trait show itself only if it meets the right environment that make it "bloom" (for example a needy baby with anxious parents).

She blames her doctor for the Klonopin problem but I think it was just a substitution for the other addiction(coke).We all know Stevie loves to play the "blame - game"-nothing is ever really her fault.I've never heard her say "aw man I effed it all up".But she has no problem telling the world how someone else effed it up.This is just my opinion,of course.

Yes, Stevie like anyone, especially famous people, doesn't like publicly admitting her faults but I think in the last years she's been much more objiective about herself.
Beside that, I truly think that her experience with the psychiatrist could really have been a case incompetence or even a scam because in the USA Psychiatry have the habit to rely too much upon prescriptions and doesn't take enough care about the true colloquial therapy, so psychiatrists overuse medications even when aren't recommended.
In case you don't know, prescriptions are even more damaging than drugs or alchool and are far more addictive, would you recommend giving them to a person with addiction issues that doesn't even have someone to look after her life habits?