SYW, best album of all time?

[Deeshere]

Originally Posted by elle

why would that offend us? you are adding to the discussion, providing your opinion.

it would be boring if everybody had the same opinion, and it just shows how interesting lyrics are if everyone draws different conclusions from them.

plus, we are discussing a meaning of LB's solo song in a Rumours forum thread discussing the album that had a lot of LB's solo material on it, but that song was not a part of that solo material predating SYW! i for one am happy about that!!


about being offended by someone constructively contributing to a discussion, it goes both ways. in my experience (being thrown out of various BN boards and blocked by various shippers on twitter ), it seems that at least a good number of shippers are way too easily offended if someone states any opinion that doesn't agree with their theories and speculations.


going back to Cast Away Dreams, who knows, people who think it's about ending Stevie/Lindsey affair may be right... but i think the problem with that interpretation is that it's based on the premise that they actually HAD an affair during SYW tour. if they didn't - well, it's a house of cards.

my interpretation is built primarily on Bass Hall / Not Too Late doc. that whole doc is going in circles around his solo career options and choices. many songs on UTS are about that too - think Not Too Late as the most blatant example. so to me the interpretation i talked about was just a complete non-brainer, something that logically flowed from Bass Hall / Not Too Late doc. but that may not be the only interpretation and i don't think it is, otherwise LB wouldn't make a point n that interview you quoted about how his lyrics are not as literal as they used to be by citing example of that song. and, you never know, Lindsfan may be closer to the truth than we think with that weed interpretation .

Glad to know I did not offend you, I felt like I might have been stepping on your toes (so to speak) and wanted to let you know that was not my intention ... Honestly I do try not to offend...because I am a pretty peace loving person and don't like to waste my time arguing ( will argue a point if I think it's important, but usually I would like to have a regular discussion). I get that you are a genuine fan of Lindsey' s (just so you know, I am too) and I hope he knows how lucky he is to have you..

[Desiree]

Originally Posted by Deeshere

I get that you are a genuine fan of Lindsey' s (just so you know, I am too) and I hope he knows how lucky he is to have you..

Elle, we've talked LB too and I agree with Deeshere, he's very lucky to have you. He is still growing on me, btw and I am completely obsessed with some of the amazing music on his solo output after OOTC (only solo besides Trouble that I'd ever heard up until a couple months ago...I know, I can't believe it either! I thought Trouble was ok, love that track and a couple others. OOTC, I've always believed to be outstanding.

I do take exception with your shipper line tho because not everyone who sees something more or unrequited between S&L is a shipper, just don't like name calling and labels. I do understand that apparently your opinions and thoughts were not respected by some on other sites...boy, FB gave me a time at first, what a learning experience, and very recent at that! Tell you what, if anyone disses you around me, they'll get it back! I too love all of the different opinions and takes...never even thought about your take on interpreting LB's songs, very interesting!!

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by Desiree

I am completely obsessed with some of the amazing music on his solo output after OOTC (only solo besides Trouble that I'd ever heard up until a couple months ago...

A couple of months ago..?

[Desiree]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

A couple of months ago..?

Maybe three...hard to believe, huh? Been a fan of FM from way back. He really turned me off with his attitude from around the Rumours record and tour...such a diva, bitching all the time and acting crazy, out of control, mean...I saw them three times in a row for that tour and he was a real jerk on stage every time! Even being gorgeous wasn't enough although it was hard to take your eyes off them...I admit it drove the show, she was all vulnerable, then she'd fire back! He always seemed so angry and sullen. Much better these days although he's still uptight as hell seeming!

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by Desiree

He really turned me off with his attitude from around the Rumours record and tour...such a diva, bitching all the time and acting crazy, out of control, mean...I saw them three times in a row for that tour and he was a real jerk on stage every time!

I thought maybe it was due to your
age. But if you saw them on the Rumours
Tour - I guess not.

I think Lindsey has a bit of the Jekyll and Hyde
syndrome.

[Deeshere]

Originally Posted by Desiree

[COLOR="Indigo"] He is still growing on me, btw and I am completely obsessed with some of the amazing music on his solo output after OOTC.

I do understand that apparently your opinions and thoughts were not respected by some on other sites...boy, FB gave me a time at first, what a learning experience, and very recent at that!

Well Desiree not everyone is a Lindsey fan right away and some may never become his fan. However, I hope he continues to grow on you, because I love him (I don't mean love, love, but love his music and even his quirky personality. He's very funny) and I also (just to clarify) love Stevie too.

I'm sorry you too got bullied by fans that did not share your opinions. I guess I can see back in the day with Stevie and Lindsey fighting, if you were a fan of either Stevie or Lindsey you felt like you had to take their side and argue their points for them, but now why bother? Neither is dissing the other and like Lindsey said it's a love fest up on stage.

[Desiree]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

I thought maybe it was due to your
age. But if you saw them on the Rumours
Tour - I guess not.

I don't follow, why my age? I'm 56 and much less judgmental than I was at 20! Remember this is 36 years ago and my memory sucks but I do remember how mean he was to Stevie on stage all three shows. She looked so afraid of him at times! He seemed to just snarl at her and then he would give her one of those OMG looks, that probably terrified her even more than the mean ones! "When he was loving, I was in tears, he knows my fears..."

I think Lindsey has a bit of the Jekyll and Hyde
syndrome.

Me, too! Seems to have it a little more balanced these days tho...

[Deeshere]

Originally Posted by Desiree

He really turned me off with his attitude from around the Rumours record and tour...such a diva, bitching all the time and acting crazy, out of control, mean...I saw them three times in a row for that tour and he was a real jerk on stage every time! ...I admit it drove the show, she was all vulnerable, then she'd fire back! He always seemed so angry and sullen. Much better these days although he's still uptight as hell seeming!

You have to try and understand that his heart was broken. Lindsey is a very emotional guy, and does not hide his feelings. That's one of the reasons I like him. Good or bad you always know where you stand with Lindsey. Yes, he was a jerk to Stevie on and off stage, because he was angry at her, for breaking up with him. If you've ever had someone you love break up with you, you know how painful that is and there's a lot of anger directed towards the person that hurt you.

I think Lindsey did the best he could under the circumstances (actually I think they both did), but (IMO) that's were the division in the fan's really started. Did you feel sorry for Stevie that she had to put up with such a jerk and see that Lindsey was mean and picking on her, or did you understand that Lindsey's heart was broken and he was lashing out at the woman that it and feel sorry for Lindsey because he obviously loved her so much?

I think Stevie's a very sweet, caring, extremely generous and loving person. As I've said before I love Stevie too. She's a very strong woman and I'm pretty sure she can take care of herself when it comes to Lindsey. She's also very good a hiding her feelings in public, and Lindsey's not.

However, like I said before, does it really matter anymore? If the two of them are true to their word, they are done fighting with each other and are now good friends, so I don't think you will have to go to another show and watch him shoot nasty looks at her, or scream lyrics of a song to her anymore, telling her how he can't stand her or how he won't miss her when she's gone.

[Desiree]

Originally Posted by Deeshere

Well Desiree not everyone is a Lindsey fan right away and some may never become his fan. However, I hope he continues to grow on you, because I love him (I don't mean love, love, but love his music and even his quirky personality. He's very funny) and I also (just to clarify) love Stevie too.

My opening up to try out LB's other solo stuff and give him another chance is a direct result of seeing the changes in him that I know require real work and self analysis...I actually love them both too.

I'm sorry you too got bullied by fans that did not share your opinions. I guess I can see back in the day with Stevie and Lindsey fighting, if you were a fan of either Stevie or Lindsey you felt like you had to take their side and argue their points for them, but now why bother? Neither is dissing the other and like Lindsey said it's a love fest up on stage.

I didn't get bullied by fans, said something on FB to someone who didn't like my comment or women for that matter and he went nuts! it involved his being brought up by myself and another woman on legal charges that are still playing out. Crazy men, crazy women!
To be honest, I think a lot of what formed my opinion on LB at the time was my boyfriend. He was a musician and seemed to come from the same mold!

I hope they can keep the love going, there are lessons to be learned on that count and it feels terrific to watch it unfold. Who knows? It might just lead to new music!

[Desiree]

Originally Posted by Deeshere

You have to try and understand that his heart was broken. Lindsey is a very emotional guy, and does not hide his feelings. That's one of the reasons I like him. Good or bad you always know where you stand with Lindsey. Yes, he was a jerk to Stevie on and off stage, because he was angry at her, for breaking up with him. If you've ever had someone you love break up with you, you know how painful that is and there's a lot of anger directed towards the person that hurt you.

I think Lindsey did the best he could under the circumstances (actually I think they both did), but (IMO) that's were the division in the fan's really started. Did you feel sorry for Stevie that she had to put up with such a jerk and see that Lindsey was mean and picking on her, or did you understand that Lindsey's heart was broken and he was lashing out at the woman that broke his heart and feel sorry for Lindsey because he obviously loved her so much?

I think Stevie's a very sweet, caring, extremely generous and loving person. As I've said before I love Stevie too. She's a very strong woman and I'm pretty sure she can take care of herself, when it comes to Lindsey. She's also very good a hiding her feelings in public, and Lindsey's not.

I've always thought Stevie kind of ruled Lindsey instead of the opposite. Like she behaved like a man might have in dealing or not dealing with their relationship issues.

However, like I said before, does it really matter anymore? If the two of them are true to their word, they are done fighting with each other and are now good friends, so I don't think you will have to go to another show and watch him shoot nasty looks at her, or scream lyrics of a song to her anymore, telling her how he can't stand her or how he won't miss her when she's gone.

I think it must have been very hard for all of them and mostly because very talented and creative people tend to be high strung and hyper emotional. Throw in all matter of drugs and alcohol and BOOM! It was inevitable! That they still speak is amazing to me! And only will and want and love and desire to make amends could have gotten them this far, that I truly believe.

[redtulip]

Originally Posted by Desiree

Maybe three...hard to believe, huh? Been a fan of FM from way back. He really turned me off with his attitude from around the Rumours record and tour...such a diva, bitching all the time and acting crazy, out of control, mean...I saw them three times in a row for that tour and he was a real jerk on stage every time! Even being gorgeous wasn't enough although it was hard to take your eyes off them...I admit it drove the show, she was all vulnerable, then she'd fire back! He always seemed so angry and sullen. Much better these days although he's still uptight as hell seeming!

Why do you think he's uptight as hell these days? I don't see it at all. Both shows I saw on this current tour he seemed very at ease and enjoying himself. Same for the 10 OMS shows I saw. In fact, take a look at this thread in the Lindsey forum: http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=52536. A few personal encounters with him described in there and all thought him to be very pleasant and open.

[Lindsfan]

Originally Posted by Deeshere

Honestly, I am not trying to upset anyone. I admit I am kind of a research alcoholic, but all I really was trying to do was present another side to the discussion, so maybe you could think about it.

I hope I did not offend you or elle questioning the song's meaning.

No offense taken. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and even if I, or anyone else, was offended, so be it

Besides...

Originally Posted by elle

we are discussing a meaning of LB's solo song in a Rumours forum thread discussing the album that had a lot of LB's solo material on it, but that song was not a part of that solo material predating SYW! i for one am happy about that!!



my interpretation is built primarily on Bass Hall / Not Too Late doc. that whole doc is going in circles around his solo career options and choices. many songs on UTS are about that too - think Not Too Late as the most blatant example. so to me the interpretation i talked about was just a complete non-brainer, something that logically flowed from Bass Hall / Not Too Late doc. but that may not be the only interpretation and i don't think it is, otherwise LB wouldn't make a point n that interview you quoted about how his lyrics are not as literal as they used to be by citing example of that song. and, you never know, Lindsfan may be closer to the truth than we think with that weed interpretation .

...which is awesome

And I agree 100% with Elle's interpretation. Nothing about the UTS album strikes me as being even remotely related to Stevie, except for the song, UTS, which I think is directed at/to her.

Originally Posted by Deeshere

You have to try and understand that his heart was broken. Lindsey is a very emotional guy, and does not hide his feelings. That's one of the reasons I like him. Good or bad you always know where you stand with Lindsey. Yes, he was a jerk to Stevie on and off stage, because he was angry at her, for breaking up with him. If you've ever had someone you love break up with you, you know how painful that is and there's a lot of anger directed towards the person that hurt you.

I think Lindsey did the best he could under the circumstances (actually I think they both did), but (IMO) that's were the division in the fan's really started. Did you feel sorry for Stevie that she had to put up with such a jerk and see that Lindsey was mean and picking on her, or did you understand that Lindsey's heart was broken and he was lashing out at the woman that it and feel sorry for Lindsey because he obviously loved her so much?

I think Stevie's a very sweet, caring, extremely generous and loving person. As I've said before I love Stevie too. She's a very strong woman and I'm pretty sure she can take care of herself when it comes to Lindsey. She's also very good a hiding her feelings in public, and Lindsey's not.

However, like I said before, does it really matter anymore? If the two of them are true to their word, they are done fighting with each other and are now good friends, so I don't think you will have to go to another show and watch him shoot nasty looks at her, or scream lyrics of a song to her anymore, telling her how he can't stand her or how he won't miss her when she's gone.

This is the kind of thing that gets under my skin a little bit, if I'm being honest. It's no secret, as you stated, that Lindsey was/could be a real jerk, and not the best person at that time. But when you give Stevie a free pass, when she herself has said, more than once, that she wasn't always so nice either, and in fact, was sleeping with another woman's husband (Mick), was just as heavily involved (if not more so) with drugs and alcohol than Lindsey, and has no right being held on such a high pedestal. She's human. Yes, she is a sweet lady, I guess. I've never met her, but she seems like a nice lady to me. But they were all f**ked up back then, and they all have come a long way and have worked hard to become better people. People will always bash Lindsey, but when they talk about Stevie as if she never did anything wrong, or bad, for me, they lose all credibility. And I'm not just calling you out on that. I see it a lot on all different social media sites. I don't say that to bash Stevie. I just think we need to be clear that there's probably no one in that band who is without sin!

Originally Posted by redtulip

Why do you think he's uptight as hell these days? I don't see it at all. Both shows I saw on this current tour he seemed very at ease and enjoying himself. Same for the 10 OMS shows I saw. In fact, take a look at this thread in the Lindsey forum: http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=52536. A few personal encounters with him described in there and all thought him to be very pleasant and open.

I was wondering that, myself? Thirty years ago, sure. Now and again in more recent years? Sure. Most people are uptight at times, and Lindsey is no different. But Uptight as hell?? Based on what? Again, on those same social media sites that I see people bashing Lindsey, I also see a lot of tweets and posts from people who either randomly met Lindsey, or had the pleasure of working with him. And the people who have actually met him, say only really nice things about him. I've met him numerous times over the last two years, and no matter how busy he was, he was always polite, kind, and just a super nice guy. Have you met him? Was he uptight with you?

Peace

[McTrouble]

All I can say is thank goodness that Elle, Lindsfan, Redtulip and Nico are still the voices of common sense on The Ledge!

[Deeshere]

Originally Posted by Lindsfan

This is the kind of thing that gets under my skin a little bit, if I'm being honest. It's no secret, as you stated, that Lindsey was/could be a real jerk, and not the best person at that time. But when you give Stevie a free pass, when she herself has said, more than once, that she wasn't always so nice either, and in fact, was sleeping with another woman's husband (Mick), was just as heavily involved (if not more so) with drugs and alcohol than Lindsey, and has no right being held on such a high pedestal. She's human. Yes, she is a sweet lady, I guess. I've never met her, but she seems like a nice lady to me. But they were all f**ked up back then, and they all have come a long way and have worked hard to become better people. People will always bash Lindsey, but when they talk about Stevie as if she never did anything wrong, or bad, for me, they lose all credibility. And I'm not just calling you out on that. I see it a lot on all different social media sites. I don't say that to bash Stevie. I just think we need to be clear that there's probably no one in that band who is without sin! :

Whoa..no need to get upset, and your not calling me out, because I think you miss understood my post.

I was not trying to say Stevie never did anything wrong and give her a pass for all her bad behavior.

My post was in response to Desiree's post saying that in the past she felt like Lindsey was ...such a diva, bitching all the time and acting crazy, out of control, mean... (which she's entitled to think)

The reason I brought up Lindsey being a (perceived) jerk at all was to illustrate the point of why some fan's choose to be a fan of Stevie's over Lindsey which a lot of times comes down to as a fan: Did you feel sorry for Stevie that she had to put up with such a jerk and see that Lindsey was mean and picking on her. That DOES NOT mean that I think Lindsey is or was a jerk. I was simply stating a reason that many fans have given as to why they are a fan of Stevie.

I also wrote as a fan: did you understand that Lindsey's heart was broken and he was lashing out at the woman that did it and feel sorry for Lindsey because he obviously loved her so much ? Because again, I was simply stating the reason that many fans have given as to why they are a fan of Lindsey.

Like, I've said many time I personally don't' think he is a jerk and I also think he had a valid reasons for being angry at Stevie for so long. If you read the post in it's context, I was actually defending Lindsey by explaining why in the past I thought he acted out towards Stevie.

Neither mine or Desiree's post were even really about Stevie except to illustrate the differences of how they act in public, and also how fans perceive them as people. It was never meant to give Stevie a free pass for bad behavior or to bash Lindsey in any way, as we were never really talking about Stevie in the first place.

DANG.. I really hope you have given Lindsey your name and phone number, because if he ever needs a bodyguard, I have no doubt you would do an AMAZING job.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Deeshere

why some fan's choose to be a fan of Stevie's over Lindsey which a lot of times comes down to as a fan: Did you feel sorry for Stevie that she had to put up with such a jerk and see that Lindsey was mean and picking on her. [/B]That DOES NOT mean that I think Lindsey is or was a jerk. I was simply stating a reason that many fans have given as to why they are a fan of Stevie.

I also wrote as a fan: did you understand that Lindsey's heart was broken and he was lashing out at the woman that did it and feel sorry for Lindsey because he obviously loved her so much ? Because again, I was simply stating the reason that many fans have given as to why they are a fan of Lindsey.

i'm completely confused... i thought people are fans of musicians because of their music, singing, songwriting, guitar playing, drumming...