Five Most Ignored Musicians

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by redbird

Irritating that it's obviously only Stevie that the writer means when they talk about the debauchery of the rest of Fleetwood Mac. You know what's funny is that I've always heard that John and Lindsey had more tension between them (back in the early days; not now of course) than Stevie and Christine ever did, and yet whenever I read retrospectives about FM it's always this Stevie vs Christine thing (even when it's supposed to be a nice or neutral thing, like "One was ice, the other fire! Ooh look at that clever bit of journalism!").

That's why I don't like that part of the story where Mick says they let Christine decide whether or not SnL could join the band, because there's nothing worse than two women not getting along. Actually, I don't think two women not getting along is any worse than two men not getting along or a man and a woman not getting along. I just don't buy into the argument that every other combo can handle their differences, but two women?? Eek. Catfight That doesn't fly with me. It's like, 'gee I handled the Bob Weston situation so maturely, but there's nothing worse than when two women don't get along.'

Sometimes women don't get along, but I don't see how their disagreements would be more fatal than anyone else's. Personality conflicts can get pretty bad no matter what the gender of the people involved. No reason to think Christine and Stevie are going to start fighting over men -- or lipstick, or be inherent rivals, just because they're female.

Michele

[Dr.Brown]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Sometimes women don't get along, but I don't see how their disagreements would be more fatal than anyone else's.

That's the key - for guys there's definitely a fate worse than death. It was very chauvinistic of them (but hey, we're talking about the mid-70's) yet even today many men get really uncomfortable being around this kind of thing. For them it's all about the unpredictability, where a woman can seemingly go from "cute, sweet and quiet" to full-on "Lorena Bobbitt" mode almost instantaneously.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Dr.Brown

That's the key - for guys there's definitely a fate worse than death. It was very chauvinistic of them (but hey, we're talking about the mid-70's) yet even today many men get really uncomfortable being around this kind of thing. For them it's all about the unpredictability, where a woman can seemingly go from "cute, sweet and quiet" to full-on "Lorena Bobbitt" mode almost instantaneously.

But one of the women was a known quantity. They knew she wasn't the Lorena Bobbitt type. It was John chasing her down with a knife, not the other way around. I mean, it's good to consult her, but as another member of the group, not as a WOMAN. I realize that when Christine was working in the department store, she didn't have much use for the women she worked with, but I'm sure there are lots of men she didn't like. Mick should have consulted her about bringing Dave Mason aboard. Maybe her and Dave working full time together may have been worse than her and another woman.

Redbird mentioned John and Lindsey and it's annoying to me that when they all remember 1975, Mick really doesn't say much about them or about the tension that he and Stevie may have created in the band (not only with Lindsey, but with Jenny too, who was around them). He just likes to get nostalgic and recall how he knew there would be nothing worse than two women snapping at each other.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing how Stevie incorporates Christine into her Without You intro for the London shows.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by michelej1

But one of the women was a known quantity. They knew she wasn't the Lorena Bobbitt type. It was John chasing her down with a knife, not the other way around. I mean, it's good to consult her, but as another member of the group, not as a WOMAN. I realize that when Christine was working in the department store, she didn't have much use for the women she worked with, but I'm sure there are lots of men she didn't like. Mick should have consulted her about bringing Dave Mason aboard. Maybe her and Dave working full time together may have been worse than her and another woman.

Redbird mentioned John and Lindsey and it's annoying to me that when they all remember 1975, Mick really doesn't say much about them or about the tension that he and Stevie may have created in the band (not only with Lindsey, but with Jenny too, who was around them). He just likes to get nostalgic and recall how he knew there would be nothing worse than two women snapping at each other.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing how Stevie incorporates Christine into her Without You intro for the London shows.

Michele

I like your take on this. It's like they're talking about cats or something. lol

[Villavic]

Now i remember a Christine interview while she was promoting In The Meantime.

She mentioned her songs here were not padding, something that she felt while recording Fleetwood Mac albums, or something like that. But I can't believe she ever felt her songs were categorized as padding. Tango in the Night was that succesful mainly because of her singles, just for example, I mean talking about what you heard on the radio.

[nicepace]

I have nothing to say about the crude Stevie-bashing in this item, but I do think the writer has a valid point in including Christine in a list of most ignored musicians. The key word being musician. I think Christine has had tons of recognition as a vocalist and a songwriter, but very little as a musician. There weren't a whole lot of women in bands in the 1960s and early 1970s who not only sang, but wrote their own songs, and played an instrument. I can't think of a single other woman in that time frame who did all three jobs in a mixed-gender band, on an equal basis with the men in the band.

In my opinion, this makes her an important rock 'n' roll pioneer, but I have given up on ever seeing an actual rock critic or historian make this point.

[becca]

Originally Posted by nicepace

I can't think of a single other woman in that time frame who did all three jobs in a mixed-gender band, on an equal basis with the men in the band.

Sandy Denny in Fotheringay and Fairport Convention 1969-1975 (she even played and recorded on two instruments as well as sang and wrote; piano and guitar). Oh and she was in The Strawbs in 1967 doing the same. I'm sure there were other women, but point taken that Chris' keyboards are under appreciated.

[redbird]

Originally Posted by michelej1

It's like, 'gee I handled the Bob Weston situation so maturely, but there's nothing worse than when two women don't get along.'

Yeah precisely How many times have two men who couldn't get along ruined a rock'n'roll band? It's stupid to put women in this position where they have to be better behaved than men to prove that they're not worse. Human beings in close contact will often experience tensions, and I'm sure Christine and Stevie had their tensions, but no more so than any other two people in the band, and probably less than a fair few pairs of members. It's a grating stereotype.

Originally Posted by nicepace

I do think the writer has a valid point in including Christine in a list of most ignored musicians. The key word being musician. I think Christine has had tons of recognition as a vocalist and a songwriter, but very little as a musician.

This is a good point. It struck me as odd (albeit in another way) that on a blurb devoted to underappreciation, it's the more acknowledged aspects of Christine's career that got mentioned anyway. Things like these are a good opportunity to enlighten people beyond what they can read or hear elsewhere (provided the author knows enough her/himself).

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by becca

Sandy Denny in Fotheringay and Fairport Convention 1969-1975 (she even played and recorded on two instruments as well as sang and wrote; piano and guitar). Oh and she was in The Strawbs in 1967 doing the same.

Vortex! I just saw Richard Thompson last night!

ETA: I would have loved a band fronted by Sandy Denny and Richard and Linda Thompson.

[becca]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Vortex! I just saw Richard Thompson last night!

ETA: I would have loved a band fronted by Sandy Denny and Richard and Linda Thompson.

I'm envious. He came through my hometown recently and I wasn't home!