'75 Fleetwood Mac - Rate the Non-Hits

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by elle

SHN was / is a hit - it is definitely a staple of several classic rock stations which in general (and unfortunately) play only classic rock hits.

It is a hit song but it was never a single so therefore it isn't a hit, according to the rules of this poll.

[elle]

Originally Posted by vivfox

It is a hit song but it was never a single so therefore it isn't a hit, according to the rules of this poll.

but we are just trying to make up the rules of this poll! - so i agree with you - it's a hit song.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by elle

yup, that's what i just said.

No you said they were still a British band with Bob Welch. Are Lindsey and Stevie more American? Lol

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by vivfox

It is a hit song but it was never a single so therefore it isn't a hit, according to the rules of this poll.

How is a song considered a hit if it was never released as a single?

[elle]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

No you said they were still a British band with Bob Welch. Are Lindsey and Stevie more American? Lol

nope, that's not the point. at least for my mathematical brain 3 / 1 is not equal 3 / 2.

but you are right there is always some gray zone.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

How is a song considered a hit if it was never released as a single?

I think I'll let Elle answer that one.

[elle]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

How is a song considered a hit if it was never released as a single?

agree with your confusion - that's the point we can debate and decide how to go forward. or not. how is MM a hit when it was never released as a single either (according to the original rules MCB was proposing)?

what we tossed around so far was:

• whether hit is everything released as a single (i think the answer is no - DYMM was NOT a hit).
• everything that was hit single worldwide - or are we being just US-centric (my vote would be worldwide, also considering the composition of the board members).
• everything that had a lot of radio play (as some things do not even get released as hard copy singles anymore anyway).
• everything that was voted as a hit in previous MSB polls (through these discussions we kinda rejected that since we didn't want to end up with Landslide as a favorite non-hit).

anything i'm forgetting? maybe it really would be helpful to have a pre-poll and vote on these options to figure out how to structure a non-hit poll?

[elle]

Originally Posted by vivfox

I think I'll let Elle answer that one.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by elle

Monday Morning was never a hit, whether or not it was voted a fan favorite. but i can argue that SHN was / is a hit - it is definitely a staple of several classic rock stations which in general (and unfortunately) play only classic rock hits.

Yeah, I never understood why MM was left off of the list????? And Over My Head was a BIG hit, and should never have made the list.

[MacShadowsBall]

I'm reading and following the posts trying to decide what to do.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by elle

nope, that's not the point. at least for my mathematical brain 3 / 1 is not equal 3 / 2.

but you are right there is always some gray zone.

Well, indeed.

Originally Posted by vivfox

I think I'll let Elle answer that one.

Oh goodie!

Originally Posted by elle

agree with your confusion - that's the point we can debate and decide how to go forward. or not. how is MM a hit when it was never released as a single either (according to the original rules MCB was proposing)?

what we tossed around so far was:

• whether hit is everything released as a single (i think the answer is no - DYMM was NOT a hit).
• everything that was hit single worldwide - or are we being just US-centric (my vote would be worldwide, also considering the composition of the board members).
• everything that had a lot of radio play (as some things do not even get released as hard copy singles anymore anyway).
• everything that was voted as a hit in previous MSB polls (through these discussions we kinda rejected that since we didn't want to end up with Landslide as a favorite non-hit).

anything i'm forgetting? maybe it really would be helpful to have a pre-poll
and vote on these options to figure out how to structure a non-hit poll?

Thanks. I think it's fair to consider a song a hit if it was released and charted as a single on both the US and UK charts in the Top 20.

[elle]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

charted as a single on both the US and UK charts in the Top 20.

you bring up another good point that i forgot to list above -

• how high does the song need to chart in order to be considered a hit? and another question to follow up - on which chart? general billboard, specific chart like adult contemporary, etc?

Holiday Road is arguably lindsey's biggest solo hit (you may argue it's Trouble, and LB might agree with you judging by his solo setlist - but what does he know ) but it's highest chart position was what - 80-something?

maybe we should look at their current itunes and amazon rankings? most popular FM songs? (highest numbers of youtube views? )... you know, enter 21st century maybe...

[MacShadowsBall]

Originally Posted by elle

maybe we should look at their current itunes and amazon rankings? most popular FM songs? (highest numbers of youtube views? )... you know, enter 21st century maybe...

...which was why I was going by the songs that scored the most votes during the 2010 contest, ya know the favorite songs as voted on by the Ledgie in the Favorite Fleetwood Mac Song of All-Time contest.

[elle]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

...which was why I was going by the songs that scored the most votes during the 2010 contest, ya know the favorite songs as voted on by the Ledgie in the Favorite Fleetwood Mac Song of All-Time contest.

i know... but going by the FM fan board votes is not as objective (and obviously it's hard to define objective!) as going by the general public - which would be itunes or amazon most popular lists. although i'm sure those lists would introduce additional questions - but maybe it's worth checking them out?

and i think i need to take part of the blame here. i think MSB was trying to make happy several of us who said we will not participate if songwriters were pitted against each other. so he was trying to make sure each songwriter has the same number of songs to start with so we can vote by songwriter first. but obviously that doesn't really work, at least not if going by the album.

MSB you can correct me if i'm wrong - but if i'm right i thank you for the consideration - and i'm sorry we made it harder for you...

[HejiraNYC]

Okay, I can appreciate the intent of this thread, but the details can be debated ad infinitum. It really should be retitled "Best FM Deep Cuts." True, many FM singles were never hits, but the intention was there to try and make it a hit (otherwise they would have never released it). As such, a deep cut is:

1. A song that was never released as a commercial or radio single in the U.S. or UK. Pretty straightforward.

2. A song that was never covered and commercially released by another artist on a major label. Tribute albums are excepted.

3. A song that was never in regular rotation on the radio. So if you heard it on the radio once, it could still be a "deep cut." If you heard it on the radio ten times, not so much. This one is harder to quantify, but still meaningful if based on decent anecdotal data.

4. Bonus tracks on deluxe reissues do not count. Deluxe first editions and B-sides count.

5. It can include songs that are/were played regularly in concert.

From the White Album I would propose:
-Blue Letter
-Sugar Daddy
-Warm Ways
-Crystal
-I'm So Afraid

From Rumours I would propose:
-Never Going Back Again
-Oh Daddy

From Tusk I would propose:
-The Ledge
-Save Me a Place
-That's all for Everyone
-Storms
-Not that Funny
-That's Enough for Me
-Walk a Thin Line
-Never Make Me Cry
-Honey Hi
-Never Forget
-Angel
-Over and Over
-Beautiful Child

From Fleetwood Mac Live I would propose:
-One More Night

From Mirage I would propose:
-Can't Go Back
-That's Alright
-Only Over You
-Empire State
-Book of Love
-Wish You Were Here
-Eyes of the World
-Cool Water

From Tang in the Night I would propose:
-Caroline
-Tango in the Night
-Mystified
-Welcome to the Room... Sara
-When I See You Again
-Down Endless Street
-Ricky
-Book of Miracles
-You and I Part I
-You and I Part II

From The Chain I would propose
-Heart of Stone
-Make Me a Mask
-Goodbye Angel

From The Dance I would propose:
-Sweet Girl
-My Little Demon
-Bleed to Love Her
-Illume
-Red Rover

And optionally... from Say You Will I would propose:
-What's the World Coming To
-Murrow
-Miranda
-Come
-Smile at You
-Running Through the Garden
-Red Rover
-Silver Girl
-Bleed to Love Her
-Everybody Finds Out
-Destiny Rules
-Say Goodbye
-Goodbye Baby
-Love Minus Zero
-Not Make Believe