Stevie and Joni and Jackson

[MariaA37]

There was a mention in one of the Moonlight threads and in another thread about Joni Mitchell and Jackson Browne and Sevie Nicks. I’m reading a book right now called Girls Like Us about Carole King, Joni Mitchell and Carly Simon. Back in the late 60s and early 70s, apparently Joni Mitchell was a big deal. (Of course her living with Graham Nash of Crosby, Stills and Nash probably helped.) I only know her song Help Me and of course, Both Sides Now and Chelsea Morning, which Judy Collins made into hits. At that time I think Stevie Nicks would have been listening to Joni Mitchell. Apparently every other rock and roll person was. And Fleetwood Mac has nothing on these people. Joni Mitchell was involved with Jackson Browne who was hanging around with the Eagles and Linda Ronstadt, who had a long term relationship with J.D. Souther, who also had a relationship with Joni Mitchell. Joni Mitchell was also involved with James Taylor, who we all know was married to Carly Simon and he was very good friends with Carole King, though I don’t think there was ever anything besides friendship between Carole King and James Taylor. Russ Kunkel played with Linda Ronstadt, Joni Mitchell, Carole King, Carly Simon and James Taylor, and at one point was engaged to Carly Simon. Carly Simon and Joni Mitchell both had a relationship with Warren Beatty. I could go on, but I think I’ve confused everyone enough. I know I sure am. Talk about embarrassing situations…

~Maria

[WildHearted]

Yeah, Stevie's talked quite a bit about listening to Joni and being influenced by her etc.

[Tango]

Originally Posted by MariaA37

There was a mention in one of the Moonlight threads and in another thread about Joni Mitchell and Jackson Browne and Sevie Nicks. I’m reading a book right now called Girls Like Us about Carole King, Joni Mitchell and Carly Simon. Back in the late 60s and early 70s, apparently Joni Mitchell was a big deal. (Of course her living with Graham Nash of Crosby, Stills and Nash probably helped.) I only know her song Help Me and of course, Both Sides Now and Chelsea Morning, which Judy Collins made into hits. At that time I think Stevie Nicks would have been listening to Joni Mitchell. Apparently every other rock and roll person was. And Fleetwood Mac has nothing on these people. Joni Mitchell was involved with Jackson Browne who was hanging around with the Eagles and Linda Ronstadt, who had a long term relationship with J.D. Souther, who also had a relationship with Joni Mitchell. Joni Mitchell was also involved with James Taylor, who we all know was married to Carly Simon and he was very good friends with Carole King, though I don’t think there was ever anything besides friendship between Carole King and James Taylor. Russ Kunkel played with Linda Ronstadt, Joni Mitchell, Carole King, Carly Simon and James Taylor, and at one point was engaged to Carly Simon. Carly Simon and Joni Mitchell both had a relationship with Warren Beatty. I could go on, but I think I’ve confused everyone enough. I know I sure am. Talk about embarrassing situations…

~Maria

I guess you know Stevie went out with JD Souther and a couple of the Eagles--actually, there's quite a few connections throughout the list of people you mentioned above.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

Yeah, Stevie's talked quite a bit about listening to Joni and being influenced by her etc.

Joni is in a league of her own. She has a musical sophistication and capability way beyond Stevie. Don't mistake that as slight against Stevie. They are each unique and wonderful in their own realms.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

Joni is in a league of her own. She has a musical sophistication and capability way beyond Stevie. Don't mistake that as slight against Stevie. They are each unique and wonderful in their own realms.

Well, I do think there is really only one Female ARTIST in all of music and that would be Joni. However, I believe Joni's light didn't last very long. Her 70s stuff was stellar, but she seemed to become disinterested. Stevie is a craftsman, definitely a visionary. But Joni's good stuff came from a different place—a much deeper place. A Case of You is just phenominal.

[Somajoseph]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Well, I do think there is really only one Female ARTIST in all of music and that would be Joni. However, I believe Joni's light didn't last very long. Her 70s stuff was stellar, but she seemed to become disinterested. Stevie is a craftsman, definitely a visionary. But Joni's good stuff came from a different place—a much deeper place. A Case of You is just phenominal.

I dont agree. Joni was just so arrogant. I remember reading a Rolling Stone cover story on her in the late seventies-what a crock. You guys think Stevie took herself seriously. She had nothing on Joni!

Short lived is right. Stevie has outlasted her in all ways. At 63, she just released her most amazing music-while being true to herself-and is still performing onstage.

Joni? She looks like someone's retired grandmother!

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by Somajoseph

Joni? She looks like someone's retired grandmother!

That was a scary picture someone posted
of Bonnie, Jane and Joni standing in line
at a casino buffet.

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Well, I do think there is really only one Female ARTIST in all of music and that would be Joni. However, I believe Joni's light didn't last very long. Her 70s stuff was stellar, but she seemed to become disinterested. Stevie is a craftsman, definitely a visionary. But Joni's good stuff came from a different place—a much deeper place. A Case of You is just phenominal.

Not Kate Bush?! Iris Dement?! Laura Nyro?!

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by Somajoseph

I dont agree. Joni was just so arrogant. I remember reading a Rolling Stone cover story on her in the late seventies-what a crock. You guys think Stevie took herself seriously. She had nothing on Joni!

Short lived is right. Stevie has outlasted her in all ways. At 63, she just released her most amazing music-while being true to herself-and is still performing onstage.

Joni? She looks like someone's retired grandmother!

I just love this quote from Joni about Bob Dylan. I wonder how Stevie would feel about Joni dissin' Bob. Maybe she would be the only one who could say "that" to Bob Dylan... Sorry, Linds.

"Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he and I." - Joni Mitchell, LA Times 2010.

[GoldDustOrphan]

Bob Dylan is a terrible singer with a long history of artistic theft. He's a brand that his label helped to build by acquiring material - written by others - that could be credited to him. Or he just swiped the work of obscure artists/poets (it was proven he stole copious material from Henry Timrod) or he appropriated long passages from traditional material without providing credit. Joni is one of many respected individuals that have declared Dylan to be a fraud. Just recently, the art world rallied against his latest act of theft. He claimed his recent exhibit of paintings captured "firsthand depictions of people, street scenes, architecture and landscape" but they weren't first hand. He copied every one of them from photographs taken by a handful of artists.
And don't get me started on his so-called voice which is incapable of even enunciating his so-called great lyrics.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by Somajoseph

I dont agree. Joni was just so arrogant. I remember reading a Rolling Stone cover story on her in the late seventies-what a crock. You guys think Stevie took herself seriously. She had nothing on Joni!

Short lived is right. Stevie has outlasted her in all ways. At 63, she just released her most amazing music-while being true to herself-and is still performing onstage.

Joni? She looks like someone's retired grandmother!

I really think any attempt at any comparison between Stevie and Joni is utterly futile. It's just like comparing giraffes with Mini Coopers; there is just no rhyme or reason. Yes, Joni has come across judgmental and downright bitter in interviews, but she has also been pretty much spot on in terms of her views on politics and justice; her lyrics have been eerily prescient. One thing you can't deny is that Joni has always spoken her mind and has never bowed down to peer pressure or political correctness. She has never played the system and she has never done anything that even remotely resembles "selling out" (okay, I will conveniently cast my gaze away from Chalkmark in a Rainstorm for the moment). I also hold Stevie in high regard for her integrity as an artist; however, I do get the sense that she is always "treading with gossamer wings" in order to maintain her aura of tranquility. And that pretty much explains why Stevie has never ever said a political thing in her life (publicly, that is).

But strictly in terms of comparing career metrics, Joni has, by far, had a much longer and more prolific solo career than Stevie. Joni's first and last studio albums were released 38 years apart, which is identical to Stevie's first/last album spread (counting her band/duo albums). However, Joni has released 18 studio albums (one of them double) plus a smattering of live albums and compilations. Stevie has only released 7 studio albums and one-third of another 7 albums with Fleetwood Mac and half of BN. The breadth of Joni's career is more staggering as well - from folk to pop to rock to jazz to standards, versus Stevie's pop-country-rock sound. I am not downplaying Stevie's greatness at all. My point is that nobody can say that Joni hasn't had a phenomenally long, prolific, rewarding career.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Well, I do think there is really only one Female ARTIST in all of music and that would be Joni. However, I believe Joni's light didn't last very long. Her 70s stuff was stellar, but she seemed to become disinterested. Stevie is a craftsman, definitely a visionary. But Joni's good stuff came from a different place—a much deeper place. A Case of You is just phenominal.

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous and I LOVE Joni Mitchell. To say that she is the only female ARTIST is extremely sexist. Would you say that about a man? And just what are the criteria of a true artist? Please .

[seekerj]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Well, I do think there is really only one Female ARTIST in all of music and that would be Joni. However, I believe Joni's light didn't last very long. Her 70s stuff was stellar, but she seemed to become disinterested. Stevie is a craftsman, definitely a visionary. But Joni's good stuff came from a different place—a much deeper place. A Case of You is just phenominal.

This is subjective. And therefore not fair to state as a fact.

[jellyman10]

Joni is like a well-prepared Sunday roast - satisfying, nutritious and could keep me going for days.

Stevie is a massive strawberry pavlova that I want to push my face into and inhale till I'm sick.

[jellyman10]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I really think any attempt at any comparison between Stevie and Joni is utterly futile. It's just like comparing giraffes with Mini Coopers; there is just no rhyme or reason.

[...]

[Joni] has never played the system and she has never done anything that even remotely resembles "selling out" (okay, I will conveniently cast my gaze away from Chalkmark in a Rainstorm for the moment).

Agree 100% with your first statement. Love the way you phrased it too.

I'm interested in why you think CIAR could be seen as JM selling out? I don't have a view on it, just wondering why you think that?

Loz