Jonathan Todds Email No One Was Supposed To See: READ

[Tango]

Originally posted by Vianna
If Mick hired JT then Mick is responsible, and it is to him that complaints should go.

As we older fans know, Mick sometimes has problems finding people of good character to work with-whoever for example helped him with that book would be a good example. Even if what he says went on did go on, the band's laundry shouldn't have been washed in public=:-)I am sure it sold books, though.

Mick also shows signs of having a spending money problem=:-)He always seems to need more $$$$ and is looking for ways to make it.

Also some of you know about how he mismanaged things when he was manager of the band-"Mick's missing millions"=:-)This fiasco is why the band members all have their own managers now. They decided not to let Mick be manager anymore.

Then there was the Fleetwood restaurant chain he was going to make millions off of...

The internet has made it so that it's easier for someone like this JT person to fleece people that's all.

I don't mean to bash Mick. None of us is perfect. He has held that band together through thick and thin, somehow or other. It's just that anything involving money he seems not to have a lot of judgment.

As to why I didn't join-maybe I would have if the tickets hadn't been so expensive to begin with. However I didn't see adding $60 to the price of the ticket just to get one.

I do understand where you are coming from Vianna. I agree, no one is perfect yet, I am also acutely aware of Mick's business happenings. I also believe the bands individual managers probably figured early on, "well, this is Mick's mess, let him deal with it." The truth is, it's become a band issue, at least in terms of how fans are questioning the business practices of the band in this situation. I absolutely believe the other members of the band can generate the leverage to bring this to an "ending." But at this point, their main focus is the tour, as it ought to be. But the publicity for the fan club debacle is still rising. The rest of the band (or their management) could bring this to an end, and can make their voices heard so that it will never happen again. (And yet other fans have said there have been fan clubs before- but nothing quite as crazy as this "pay and get nothing" club.)

I wasn't going to join the fan club. That's what's really crazy. I have managed to get decent seats in the past, yet have resorted to using brokers when it was particularly important to me for concerts. I was also thinking this might be the last time this band gets out, and it wasn't going to be "enough" to see them once. It made sense to me that the band should profit from me, rather than ticket brokers, and the promises seemed real enough, and for the low low fee, the opportunity to get 4 tickets per venue, etc it all sounded great. (It wasn't!)



I'd really appreciate hearing why others DIDN'T join.

[Patti]

Tango, since you asked...I didn't join for a couple of reasons. First off, I have had some "real life" changes and $60 was just a lot of money I didn't really have. A good friend with whom I was attending the shows did join, so I relied on her to get the tickets. Secondly, something in my gut told me not to do it. Boy was my gut right.

Having said that, though, I was really feeling bad at first because I wouldn't have access to all that great "insider" content and considered joining several times. Still, I decided to hold off and see what the people who did join had to say. I really intended to join eventually. I even felt a bit guilty about not supporting "my" band.

Obviously, it turns out that it was a good thing that I didn't join. I really feel for those of you who did. You were taken. It's not right. Something needs to be done. Jonathan Todd needs to go.

Patti

[enibs78]

I am sick about how Jonathan Todd has mishandled the fan club and misrepresented the band, and how he has treated people like Pip and Louise.

I have also been to a couple of shows so far on the tour and have been blown away by how good the band is sounding, how great they're doing together. I don't want to do anything at this point that is going to start a fight between them.

According to at least one magazine article, Jonathan Todd is Mick's "friend and business partner." He produced Mick's Total Drumming project. Maybe this is one more example of Mick's questionable business judgment, but with that as background it's hard to see Mick firing him. And getting Stevie or Lindsey into the fray will not be good for the band.

Go with complaints to the California AG, to Warner Brothers, to the press and places like that. But PLEASE don't ask Stevie and Lindsey to be doing battle with Mick over this in the middle of the tour. I hope I don't get flamed for this, it's just the way I feel.

[Cour]

Originally posted by SaraRhiannon
I feel exactly the same way, Cour. Half of the people over there are CHOOSING to remain ignorant about everything, and the other half just don't care. The other night I posted about 15 different messages there with links to this thread. The PMs and responses I got were to the effect of "go back to the Ledge, we don't care about what you have to say, this is OUR board, etc. etc." THEY are the ones making this an "us vs. them" situation when it need not be. The fan club/Todd problems have been ongoing for months now. The facts are out there. They've had every chance to educate themselves, and are choosing to remain ignorant (hoping that they'll also be deemed "safe" and then receive perks like the two sellouts Jackie and Trinity did? Perhaps.) Whatever the reason, it doesn't really matter to me. I don't want any part of them when the **** hits the fan, the Mick board and fanclub are no longer here, and they're forced to come to the Ledge and to the other boards. I won't welcome them.

It seems that the people who post share the same double standards as their leader, Mr Todd.


Someone who posted pics from her show had them stolen and I think they're being sold on Ebay. Everyone on that board is so appalled and feels so badly for the girl. While I am sorry her photos were lifted and are being sold, is this any different than Jonathan Todd STEALING the ENTIRE Penguin Discography? He stole the photos of the albums and ALL of the stats that Marty has been collecting and updating for years. Why weren't those people appalled about that? Why didn't they post to Mr Todd that he was wrong to steal the Peguin discography? While I feel badly that the girl's photos were stolen, why the double standard?


I guess it's alright for their mighty leader to steal from fan sites and cheat fans with the scam of the fanclub, but when one of them has some photos taken, from an internet message board, watch out..it's a huge crime!


Why didn't the pack of rabid dogs jump allover her the way they jumped all over anyone who complained about the fanclub. Why didn't they tell her and the people there who supported her.....


"THERE WERE NO GUARANTEES someone wouldn't steal your photos if you posted them on a message board!!!"


"You should have known this could happen if you posted your pictures on the internet, you should just be grateful you got to see the show, starving children won't get to see Fleetwood Mac and you did!"


"I would have been happy to have the photos and have seen the show, why are you whining that someone took them! You can still look at them, they're not gone forever (unlike our concert seats!)"


As far as I'm concerned, the people who stay on that board and condone what was done to this community by Joanthan Todd cannot expect to come back to the fan sites when Jonathan Todd's sites are closed. They can condone anything Jonathan Todd does to their fellow FM fans, but when some pictures are lifted, all of a sudden it's a crime and the person who stole them should be put in jail. Strange sense of justice, but they're definitely birds of a feather. and they belong together.

[wondergirl9847]

Originally posted by Cour
Someone who posted pics from her show had them stolen and I think they're being sold on Ebay. Everyone on that board is so appalled and feels so badly for the girl. While I am sorry her photos were lifted and are being sold, is this any different than Jonathan Todd STEALING the ENTIRE Penguin Discography? He stole the photos of the albums and ALL of the stats that Marty has been collecting and updating for years. Why weren't those people appalled about that? Why didn't they post to Mr Todd that he was wrong to steal the Peguin discography? While I feel badly that the girl's photos were stolen, why the double standard?

I copied her photos and put them on Yahoo Photos for people who had been banned to see them, they were good photos. I DID NOT sell the photos or put them on Ebay. She emailed me to take them down and she complained to yahoo about copyright infringement. I also was told my golddustwoman (I think it was) to take them down, that this lady was an attorney and would get in touch with yahoo. I took them down as soon as I read her email and I will NEVER post anyone's photos for others to see EVER again. I've learned my lesson about being nice.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I copied her photos and put them on Yahoo Photos for people who had been banned to see them, they were good photos. I DID NOT sell the photos or put them on Ebay. She emailed me to take them down and she complained to yahoo about copyright infringement. I also was told my golddustwoman (I think it was) to take them down, that this lady was an attorney and would get in touch with yahoo. I took them down as soon as I read her email and I will NEVER post anyone's photos for others to see EVER again. I've learned my lesson about being nice.

You mean it's not true anyone tried to sell them on Ebay? That all of this furor is simply over your posting of them on Yahoo? I guess they had to make it sound worse so they didn't look petty when they took the photos down.

[gypsygem81]

Originally posted by sodascouts
You mean it's not true anyone tried to sell them on Ebay? That all of this furor is simply over your posting of them on Yahoo? I guess they had to make it sound worse so they didn't look petty when they took the photos down.

Well, I emailed her to ask her for permisson to post them on my site and she said that she wasn't allowing anybody to have them because they had been taken from her and tried to be sold. She didn't mention e-bay though, so I don't know where they were being sold.

Love Gem

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by sodascouts
You mean it's not true anyone tried to sell them on Ebay? That all of this furor is simply over your posting of them on Yahoo? I guess they had to make it sound worse so they didn't look petty when they took the photos down.

Well all I can say is that she is pretty naive if she thinks people aren't going to right click and save the pictures... I would guarantee even the people coming out in sympathy have done so.

Pip

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by Cour
It seems that the people who post share the same double standards as their leader, Mr Todd.


Someone who posted pics from her show had them stolen and I think they're being sold on Ebay. Everyone on that board is so appalled and feels so badly for the girl. While I am sorry her photos were lifted and are being sold, is this any different than Jonathan Todd STEALING the ENTIRE Penguin Discography? He stole the photos of the albums and ALL of the stats that Marty has been collecting and updating for years. Why weren't those people appalled about that? Why didn't they post to Mr Todd that he was wrong to steal the Peguin discography? While I feel badly that the girl's photos were stolen, why the double standard?


I guess it's alright for their mighty leader to steal from fan sites and cheat fans with the scam of the fanclub, but when one of them has some photos taken, from an internet message board, watch out..it's a huge crime!


Why didn't the pack of rabid dogs jump allover her the way they jumped all over anyone who complained about the fanclub. Why didn't they tell her and the people there who supported her.....


"THERE WERE NO GUARANTEES someone wouldn't steal your photos if you posted them on a message board!!!"


"You should have known this could happen if you posted your pictures on the internet, you should just be grateful you got to see the show, starving children won't get to see Fleetwood Mac and you did!"


"I would have been happy to have the photos and have seen the show, why are you whining that someone took them! You can still look at them, they're not gone forever (unlike our concert seats!)"


As far as I'm concerned, the people who stay on that board and condone what was done to this community by Joanthan Todd cannot expect to come back to the fan sites when Jonathan Todd's sites are closed. They can condone anything Jonathan Todd does to their fellow FM fans, but when some pictures are lifted, all of a sudden it's a crime and the person who stole them should be put in jail. Strange sense of justice, but they're definitely birds of a feather. and they belong together.

This totally sums it up really... a lot of the people over there choose to ignore what is going on concerning Todd.... to them it isn't important. Poor misguided fools

Pip

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I copied her photos and put them on Yahoo Photos for people who had been banned to see them, they were good photos. I DID NOT sell the photos or put them on Ebay. She emailed me to take them down and she complained to yahoo about copyright infringement. I also was told my golddustwoman (I think it was) to take them down, that this lady was an attorney and would get in touch with yahoo. I took them down as soon as I read her email and I will NEVER post anyone's photos for others to see EVER again. I've learned my lesson about being nice.

Well it is quite clear that they didn't want the 'banned' folks to see them. I wonder if any of these people have taken time to read this thread when they come over here to check out what is being said

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by glitter_fades

If they don't know the depth of the situation, they should. These people are not stupid. They're not children. They're not supposed to be on drugs anymore. They have no excuses...unless it's a calculated business decision NOT to know.

Again, the managers have all been given documentation about the situation. If her managment is contacted about something that could harm her public image, and they don't clue her in, they deserve to be fired, more so than the people she fired for forcing her into drug rehab. Where are the priorities?

The fact is that managers are there to handle their business affairs.....with regard to any controvercial info that may be given to the managers it is at the managers discretion that decide to pass on the info or not for the most part managers HANDLE EVERYTHING......IF it is going to damage their image that will not be down to the managers but down to the PR person to handle the fallout. The individual 'star' involved will be informed on a need to know basis until that time they pretty much live in ignorance. If they don't NEED to know then they won't be told.
If there is nothing to report that MANAGERS get paid to handle then they will not be told. That is what MANAGERS do they manage EVERYTHING.

I KNOW how difficult it was to get through to Stevie's management on a situation that she was personally involved with and all I needed to have was a yes or no answer....it took 5 MONTHS.....

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by enibs78
I am sick about how Jonathan Todd has mishandled the fan club and misrepresented the band, and how he has treated people like Pip and Louise.

I have also been to a couple of shows so far on the tour and have been blown away by how good the band is sounding, how great they're doing together. I don't want to do anything at this point that is going to start a fight between them.

According to at least one magazine article, Jonathan Todd is Mick's "friend and business partner." He produced Mick's Total Drumming project. Maybe this is one more example of Mick's questionable business judgment, but with that as background it's hard to see Mick firing him. And getting Stevie or Lindsey into the fray will not be good for the band.

Go with complaints to the California AG, to Warner Brothers, to the press and places like that. But PLEASE don't ask Stevie and Lindsey to be doing battle with Mick over this in the middle of the tour. I hope I don't get flamed for this, it's just the way I feel.

No flames, just some points I thought of I'd like to make about this.

I just don't think that it would be THAT "upsetting" to SN & LB if they were "made aware" of this during the tour as it's often been stated that they have been "through so much already" in the past so this shouldn't be any different than those other times.

Like Vianna said, no one is perfect, but I personally don't think Stevie & Lindsey are as sweet, innocent and angelic as some people may think they are (I don't mean YOU enibs, I just mean the general public or whoever ) For instance, I mean, you (meaning everyone) don't REALLY believe Stevie when she clings on to her "explanations" of why she got in to drugs in the first place of "no one told us it was bad for us" do you? No one ever told me that swallowing broken glass was bad for me either but not being told this didn't make me ever want to do it.

If it was to be that upsetting to them then maybe they shouldn't be in the business, it's like the old expression "if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen". We all have to deal with things that are upsetting to us in our everyday lives while we are trying to concentrate on other things AND we handle it ourselves and don't have "managers" to handle things like this for us so that in itself shouldn't be an issue as stated earlier, they're not children and have to realize that if they're going to be in a BAND then all that comes under it's name INCLUDES them at ALL times in which they are in it, they can't be in it at selected times of convenience. For instance, if you're at work and your boss says to you "oh this person you work with is swamped with stuff that needs to be attended to, can you help them out for the rest of the day?" As much as you may want to keep to the things you want to deal with, you can't say to your boss "well, no, that's their mess, let them deal with it". Just a thought.

Also, (and I'm sorry to keep going in to this angle of things but it was something I thought of a little while ago) it's been cited that Tom Petty is someone who really cares about his fans and takes care of them via his fan club etc. SO, you'd think since both SN & LB both seem to be close with Tom now (if nothing else according to appearances they have made on TP albums over the years, her in the 80's and he in the 90's) that if she/they REALLY DID CARE about her/their fans, then all she'd/they'd have to do is meet with/call TP and say "Look we know you have a good system with your fan club set up and we care about our fans so can you advise me/us on how to put it together to make sure it's run right, they get value for money, areas/stumbling blocks to watch out for (etc.)? As long as she/they listen(s) to what he has to say to her/them then any fan club they would "care about" would be built up the same way as his, he might not even have to say anything except putting SN/LB in contact with the "clean" people that run his one (that is, if they can run another one at the same time and if they don't have the resources to run a FM themselves then he could've set them up with more "clean people" or at least given them advice as suggested above. However, their "silence" on this should say something and if they really don't know what's going on about this then that should show that they don't care about their fans as much as it may seem as if they did really want to know what their fans thought etc. then they could check around the web (or hire someone "clean" to do it for them) while they are waiting in their hotel rooms for their next appearance as suggested by me before. I know the on line fan base is only a small portion of the fans etc. but they can't have their heads in the sand THAT far to not know in this day and age how important a factor the internet is for fan bases and if nothing else, it would be a quick (if they're SO busy) easy way to get a general overview of what's going on and would at least give them a grain of what life is like for a FM fan (as I say this is all assuming they care that much about their fanbase) and it may also open their eyes as to how inferior the official sites are to sites like The Penguin and if they really wanted to give the fans "value for money" then you'd think the'd say to their "webmasters"... "Can we add (this) and how about (this)" as another big assumption that was made by JT was that he decided that every fan wanted a "flashy site with no content" when, though some may want that, I'm sure most of us would've preferred it to be less flashy if that meant we got more content instead right?

Like I've said, I think they may release a statement AFTER the tour/project is over and THEN say "oh gee sorry" to try to make it look good but what good will a statement at that time do anyone? (and that's assuming there'll be a statement at all).

Anyways, just some thoughts I had on this and I just wanted to chuck them in to the mix is all.

John

[Bella Figura]

Hi Cour, I corrected my post!!

No problem, you are perfectly right in having yourself quoted correctly...I think this has happened to you more than once so please accept my apologies.

I explained in my first post on this thread that I have been a longtime member of the Ledge and found that the only way messageboards to really work is to welcome all, respect all, quickly correct yourself when you are wrong and argue your position with passion and intelligence.

[Cour]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I copied her photos and put them on Yahoo Photos for people who had been banned to see them, they were good photos. I DID NOT sell the photos or put them on Ebay. She emailed me to take them down and she complained to yahoo about copyright infringement. I also was told my golddustwoman (I think it was) to take them down, that this lady was an attorney and would get in touch with yahoo. I took them down as soon as I read her email and I will NEVER post anyone's photos for others to see EVER again. I've learned my lesson about being nice.

It's that odd view of justice and right and wrong that keeps cropping up with Jonathan Todd and his administrators.

Do you suppose Jackie contacts the owners of those "photos of the week" she posts and gets permission to use them? I don't! I know one week they posted a picture that was taken from the Penguin because Marty had altered it with something. I wonder why the whole issue of copyright is a one way street and they're always threatening people with lawsuits when they are the ones who are constantly trampling on everyone else!


I wonder how Mr. Todd's lawyer would advise him if someone had a copy of every single version of his fanclub agreement. Do you suppose it's his lawyer who's telling him to change it without making any notation of the changes? I doubt it.


Christy, I have no doubt that almost every single one of the people who post there have at least ONE picture of FM on their hard drive that they never got permission to "take". I'd also be willing to bet that many of them took things from the Penguin and other fan sites and never even thought to ask for permission. They all seem to enjoy visiting the fan sites and enjoying their content, but don't ask them to share a darn thing with anyone else. Cry FOUL and THEIF to anyone who tries to let other fans enjoy something they have.


Maybe once the BBB, AGO and FBI teaches Mr. Todd about the law, he won't be so fast to abuse it himself.

[gypsysara]

While I can understand a person wanting to protect their business & interests by "checking out" a potential business-partner - there is NO excuse for JT to verbally slay Pip, Louise & the rest of the Fireflies UK. Some of his BS is unfounded, obviously - I mean they reinstated Pip. And some of it is downright IMMORAL. Come on, add it to the "cart"??? Like the common layperson doesnt know that means MONEY? How does JT feel about taking MONEY from a NON-PROFIT? He reminds me of the chairity CEO's you hear about that skim $$$ off the top. No care or consideration to those who need help. And FFlies UK didnt need "help" per sey, just a link - suggestion - or banner. How HARD is that?

Im so sorry this happened to you guys, and THANK YOU for OPENING OUR EYES!

JT you should be ASHAMED of yourself! And SHAME on your GRAMMAR ERRORS TOO!