Going Their Own Way (Sunday Times, 24th May)

[MikeVielhaber]

Originally Posted by wheart

Love this! So I think Stevie's been "tired" of Fleetwood Mac since the whole Say You Will album and tour unpleasantness went down. But it was a once every three year commitment so she dealt with it. In her mind she'll participate in the 2013 tour then bye bye FM for another three or four years, while she can do what she really wants to do: make another record with Dave Stewart and do some touring. But then Christine came back. This wasn't in Stevie's plans and I think she still trying to wrap her head around it. I don't think she's quite as overjoyed as she claims to be at Chris' return. I think she now feels trapped by this never ending tour and potential album, neither of which were part of her three year plan. I think what she's experiencing now is the clashing of two very strong forces: her loyalty to Fleetwood Mac (& Christine) and her desire to do what she truly wants to do. I believe she had the final years of her career very well planned out and then everything got completely and totally screwed up.

It's this 3 year thing that is partially why we haven't had an album. Every time she comes back she just wants to tour. Each time Lindsey is like may be we can go in the studio afterward? And she's like nah. So then they go their own way and when they return to the band they go on another tour and the cycle continues. At some point an album and tour have to go together.

[elle]

Originally Posted by sorcerer999

He doesn't make the recording process enjoyable for her.

i'm confused. Lindsey's role is writing songs, playing guitar, arranging, singing, and producing, but how is it his or anybody's job when working on new album to "make it enjoyable" for a specific person?

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Mick-New album and tour
John-Whatever Mick wants
Christine-New album and tour
Lindsey-New album and tour
Stevie-I'm tired

Questions?

love it - clear and succinct!

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by UndoingTheLaces

He said in the Destiny Rules documentary that he intentionally plays up the Lindsey/Stevie romance and drama for the audience when they're on stage.

Where in the documentary does he say this?

Lindsey has said that it's staged, but he didn't say he was the one doing it and I don't think he talked about it in the DR documentary.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by sorcerer999

It's "his way"..."his vision"...a fact that was painfully pointed out in the "Destiny Rules" Doc, and then again on in her own "In Your Dreams" Doc.

Aside from the "you wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan" shtick, it wasn't pointed out at all from what I saw. I didn't see Lindsey doing anything in the DR documentary that hampered Stevie's enjoyment of anything. I mean, there's a lot that didn't make it into that video that I'm sure went on behind the scenes. But based on what we did see, he wasn't insisting on having anything his way. He was working with her on sound and everything else (double album or single album, etc.) and they compromised. He didn't get his way. They came to contretemps regarding the engineer, but in the end, he didn't make the choice about CLA.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

i'm confused. Lindsey's role is writing songs, playing guitar, arranging, singing, and producing, but how is it his or anybody's job when working on new album to "make it enjoyable" for a specific person?


love it - clear and succinct!

There's this expectation that people not only have to be professional with Stevie, but they have to bow down to her and enjoy her celebrity or else the palm trees (or the wrath of millions) will smack them in the head. I mean, you can't just treat her like a person. You have to treat her like a deity -- or else you're the devil. Stevie talks like that and has for decades, until she's created a perception that that's how it should be, when actually her expectations are juvenile. I think she's not happy unless she's catered to, rather than just treated like one of the band.

It's like when she said Lindsey treated her like one of his daughters and she really liked that. It reminded me of Lindsey looking out the window at his kid during an interview and saying, "Oooh, look at Lee Lee on the trampoline." Stevie would love it if Lindsey would look at her -- twirling a baton and start cooing and clapping and praising her. But I think he thinks that would be idiotic. Hence, their problems.

And of course, I'm not talking about the past when they were yelling and hostile, because no one wants to work under those conditions. I'm talking about now, when I think there's mostly civility, but that's not enough. There needs to be adoration or else Stevie is miserable.

Michele

[BlueLight]

Originally Posted by wheart

Love this! So I think Stevie's been "tired" of Fleetwood Mac since the whole Say You Will album and tour unpleasantness went down. But it was a once every three year commitment so she dealt with it. In her mind she'll participate in the 2013 tour then bye bye FM for another three or four years, while she can do what she really wants to do: make another record with Dave Stewart and do some touring. But then Christine came back. This wasn't in Stevie's plans and I think she still trying to wrap her head around it. I don't think she's quite as overjoyed as she claims to be at Chris' return. I think she now feels trapped by this never ending tour and potential album, neither of which were part of her three year plan. I think what she's experiencing now is the clashing of two very strong forces: her loyalty to Fleetwood Mac (& Christine) and her desire to do what she truly wants to do. I believe she had the final years of her career very well planned out and then everything got completely and totally screwed up.

Perfectly, and (in my view) accurately stated.

[secondhandchain]

She JUST doesn't want to do another album. I think she has writers block or is afraid she will be outshined by Lindsey and Christine. Her last couple of albums were either co written or old songs. It's not that tiring for her to be involved. She gives them the songs and let's the musicians play it. She adds the vocals. They do most of the work and whenever she is there she can have people attend to her every need. It's a big lie, just like their fake hold handing on stage. I'm tired of the ever changing story about how they are getting along, which BTW comes from Stevie. Just shut up and quit already Stevie. I could care less anymore.

[APerfectLie]

Can you seriously blame Stevie? Fleetwood Mac was itching to go out on tour again right after Unleashed and gave her hell for taking time to promote IYD. She caved and did the 2013 tour with then only to be blind sided by the return of Christine and a mammoth two year tour with Fleetwood Mac again. She even rushed 24 Karat Gold and did very little promotion for that album so she could go out with the Mac again. But now, after spending three of the last five years touring with FM, Stevie is being bashed? If I remember correctly, Christine took 16 years off. Lindsey left Say You Will and said, "give me five years for my solo career" and now Stevie just wants to take a break before deciding to rush into the studio and that is selfish? I don't blame Stevie for being tired and wanting to tend to her solo career and herself for a while. Don't worry, Stevie will record with them eventually and all will be well in the world.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by APerfectLie

Can you seriously blame Stevie? Fleetwood Mac was itching to go out on tour again right after Unleashed and gave her hell for taking time to promote IYD. She caved and did the 2013 tour with then only to be blind sided by the return of Christine and a mammoth two year tour with Fleetwood Mac again. She even rushed 24 Karat Gold and did very little promotion for that album so she could go out with the Mac again. But now, after spending three of the last five years touring with FM, Stevie is being bashed? If I remember correctly, Christine took 16 years off. Lindsey left Say You Will and said, "give me five years for my solo career" and now Stevie just wants to take a break before deciding to rush into the studio and that is selfish? I don't blame Stevie for being tired and wanting to tend to her solo career and herself for a while. Don't worry, Stevie will record with them eventually and all will be well in the world.

Yes, but because of Lindsey's quarantining himself from the band for 5 years, Stevie also got a 5 year break from FM. What did she do with it? Tour with Tom Petty unpaid, tour solo ceaselessly, and trot out an increasing procession of irrelevant cover songs. No Rhiannon movie, no goldfish & ladybug cartoon, none of her stale list of things she's always whining FM prevents her from doing. I don't get why it's such a hardship for Stevie to tour 3 years with FM, but her glut of 21st century solo oldies tours wasn't. She's talking out both sides of her mouth, and nobody is really buying it anymore.

[MikeVielhaber]

Originally Posted by APerfectLie

Can you seriously blame Stevie? Fleetwood Mac was itching to go out on tour again right after Unleashed and gave her hell for taking time to promote IYD. She caved and did the 2013 tour with then only to be blind sided by the return of Christine and a mammoth two year tour with Fleetwood Mac again. She even rushed 24 Karat Gold and did very little promotion for that album so she could go out with the Mac again. But now, after spending three of the last five years touring with FM, Stevie is being bashed? If I remember correctly, Christine took 16 years off. Lindsey left Say You Will and said, "give me five years for my solo career" and now Stevie just wants to take a break before deciding to rush into the studio and that is selfish? I don't blame Stevie for being tired and wanting to tend to her solo career and herself for a while. Don't worry, Stevie will record with them eventually and all will be well in the world.

She caved in 2013 after 4 years since the previous tour? That exceeds her self imposed 3 year rule. Her solo album was done to fill time between tours while the others were in the studio. She didn't have to do it. It fulfilled a contractual obligation, but that obligation didn't have a time limit. She didn't have to do it then. Plus, she did that particular project because it could be done quickly.

Lindsey asked for ,I think, 3 years to put out 2 albums and tour behind them, which he did in 2006 and 2008. He also asked for those years following a Fleetwood Mac album and tour and, in fact, if I recall correctly he only did that when it became apparent (because of Stevie) they weren't going to do another Fleetwood Mac album after SYW, which is what he would've preferred. If Stevie were asking for the same under the same conditions I don't think anyone would have a problem with it because it means we would've already gotten an album. Lindsey's 3rd album was only done because of Stevie's unwillingness to do a Fleetwood Mac album following the 2009 tour. And what did Stevie do during those 3 years Lindsey asked for? Tour maybe? She certainly didn't record any music. Let's not act like Lindsey's request held the band back from making an album. Stevie would've done that plenty if she had the chance.

It's been 12 years already. I don't get why people are so nonchalant about her "eventually" cooperating when she's been firmly against it for 12 years. It might happen, but certainly it's no sure thing. Plus at everyone's collective age, it's harder now to say "let's take 3 years off" when there's something very special and important that still needs to be done before the band is over. They don't have all the time in the world to do this thing.

[APerfectLie]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Yes, but because of Lindsey's quarantining himself from the band for 5 years, Stevie also got a 5 year break from FM. What did she do with it? Tour with Tom Petty unpaid, tour solo ceaselessly, and trot out an increasing procession of irrelevant cover songs. No Rhiannon movie, no goldfish & ladybug cartoon, none of her stale list of things she's always whining FM prevents her from doing. I don't get why it's such a hardship for Stevie to tour 3 years with FM, but her glut of 21st century solo oldies tours wasn't. She's talking out both sides of her mouth, and nobody is really buying it anymore.

Just because she got a break then doesn't mean she can't request one now. Like it or not, other than John and Mick, Stevie has been the most committed member of Fleetwood Mac and if she wants a break I don't see any point in vilifying her for it. The reason her solo tours aren't such a hardship for her is because they are smaller, the sets are ahorter, and she runs them. She doesn't have to worry about her solo tour running across the world over the next two years. If she were to say yes to Fleetwood Mac she would be signing herself up to make a record for the next year, releasing it in 2016 and touring with them again thru 2017, which ends up being five straight years of Fleetwood Mac, which is clearly not what Stevie wants and I don't see why anyone would blame her.

[MikeVielhaber]

Originally Posted by APerfectLie

Just because she got a break then doesn't mean she can't request one now. Like it or not, other than John and Mick, Stevie has been the most committed member of Fleetwood Mac and if she wants a break I don't see any point in vilifying her for it. The reason her solo tours aren't such a hardship for her is because they are smaller, the sets are ahorter, and she runs them. She doesn't have to worry about her solo tour running across the world over the next two years. If she were to say yes to Fleetwood Mac she would be signing herself up to make a record for the next year, releasing it in 2016 and touring with them again thru 2017, which ends up being five straight years of Fleetwood Mac, which is clearly not what Stevie wants and I don't see why anyone would blame her.

Simply not quitting the band does not equal commitment. She's actively held the band back several times from recording an album and she will again, most likely. She's not committed to this band.

[APerfectLie]

Originally Posted by MikeVielhaber

Simply not quitting the band does not equal commitment. She's actively held the band back several times from recording an album and she will again, most likely. She's not committed to this band.

Several times? Other than now and when she was in the middle of a solo project, when has she actively held them back?

Also, not quitting the band is more commitment than quitting the band.

[MikeVielhaber]

Originally Posted by APerfectLie

Several times? Other than now and when she was in the middle of a solo project, when has she actively held them back?

Also, not quitting the band is more commitment than quitting the band.

As I posted, Lindsey wanted to go in after SYW to do another album....she understandably wanted a break. Ok. Then after 2009 tour Lindsey wanted to do another album. He mentioned throughout the tour that's what he was hoping to do. Stevie said no. Then in 2012 Lindsey wanted to do an album. Stevie said no. The rest of the band recorded music without her and she ended up agreeing to add background vocals to 2 of Lindsey's songs, spending a total of a few days on it, and provided a recent recording of a 40 year old Buckingham Nicks song as her contribution to their now EP. She didn't sing a single lead vocal. She did the bare minimum. And then, of course, their current situation with a reunited lineup and the others raring to go. Stevie says no.

There are levels of commitment. The line between quitting and not quitting could be considered one. But it seems to be a begrudging commitment at that and she won't record any music with them. Quitting is the more admirable option, to be honest.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by APerfectLie

Just because she got a break then doesn't mean she can't request one now. Like it or not, other than John and Mick, Stevie has been the most committed member of Fleetwood Mac and if she wants a break I don't see any point in vilifying her for it.

Stevie has had nothing but breaks. It was after SYW that Stevie said she would never record with FM again unless Christine returned to the band. That is why Lindsey said he'd take 3 (not 5) years for a solo album. Well, Christine HAS returned to the band and she still does not want to record. It's not like the woman has been working ceaselessly with FM for the last decade and now deserves a little time to catch her breath. They wanted to record with her before she ever thought of being tired. Tired is just her latest excuse.

I'm not vilifying her. I don't think she's worth the time. If she doesn't want to be on the album, I don't think she should be and Lindsey should shut up about wanting to produce her stuff. I'm more mad at the other four for thinking they can't record without her than I am with her for not recording with them. With her current mindset, I don't think her contributions to a Mac album would be gratifying. She'd hate the process and she'd say she hated it and the result until all of them die and that's not what I want. I don't see any reason to force or shame her into the recording studio, but I also don't understand the "Oh, she just needs a rest. She's been working so hard" excuse.

There may be an album some day, but there won't be an album in due time, because due time was years ago.

Michele