"THROWN DOWN" Not that great...

Steve · #1 01-04-2003, 10:17 PM

I now this will appear blasphamous, but I hope "Thrown Down" was just a leak (even not final version) and is not the lead track from the new album. To me, "TD" sounds very late 80's, early 90's. It doesn't have a fresh, dynamic, up-to-date sound. Stevie's TISL had that sound (including the lead track and "Planets"). In fact, "Planets" blows "TD" out of the water in terms of song and production. I expect more from FM, especially under Lindsey's thumb (well..we were just happy to get them together for "Twisted").

I may be a FM fanatic, but I know a great song from a mediocre song..."Silver Springs" vs. the Lindsey produced "Twisted".

Maybe it's been just too long between studio albums and I'm just hoping for too much, but I don't think so. I remember waiting for Tusk, Mirage, Tango, the Dance, and all the others in between. When it's great, it's great. When it's so, so..it's "Save Me" or "Paper Doll".

Being a true FM fan, my fingers are crossed. Yes, they have something else up their sleeves to surprise us with. I can't wait!

Christopher · #2 01-05-2003, 12:48 AM

Now that I have had time to listen to the newer version of Thrown down"over and over again for a few weeks..... and the excitement and newness has somewhat worn off......I can say that I somewhat agree with you.
I have always thought or hoped that this is not the final mix, and we will see some more enhancements when we get the final version.
The song will be a good album track, but I also hope it is not the lead,... It sounds too familiar and not groundbreaking enough...
although it wouldn't sound out of place on Stevie's TISL, I aslo agree that "Planets" or even "TISL" or "Fall from Grace" blow Thrown Down out of the water all around!!!

But then again I rank "Planets" right up there with the best Stevie has ever done ie: "Edge of 17", or "Stand Back".

While we all are having "Great Expectations" for the new FM, Im sure that every song on the CD will not be groundbreaking...and I chalk "Thrown Down" as being one of the more predictable classic sounds Fleetwood mac is known for. The instrumentation on it is very energized...that rhythm section! ....and I still assert it's several notches above a "Save me" or "Paper Doll".

Johnny Stew · #3 01-05-2003, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Christopher
It sounds too familiar and not groundbreaking enough...

I guess that's where I differ from a lot of people... I'm definitely expecting to have my socks knocked off, but I'm not worried if the album is "groundbreaking," or not.

I'm not even sure what that term means anymore. Seems like everything's already been done once by someone anyway, so the band might as well just make some great music... the kind they do best... and not worry about whether it's innovative.

I'm certainly not disagreeing with you guys, or anything. I'm just saying that I like Fleetwood Mac, when they sound like FLEETWOOD MAC... superb instrumentation, top-of-the-line production, sublime harmonies, heartfelt lyrics... and yes, that bit of quirkiness. Which, to me, is also part of "The Fleetwood Mac Sound."

So, under those terms, I absolutely love "Thrown Down," and I'm still loving it, even after the dozens of times I've listened to it.

Johnny Stew

tommer · #4 01-05-2003, 04:14 AM

steve, i could easily just reply by saying that you don't know what the hell you're talking about, but i don't mind specifying.
1-you don't expect musicians in their 50's/60's to create musical revolutions, you can only hope they'll keep on doing what they used to do best, which i believe IS the case with this song.
2-TD is NO Twisted. it doesn't sound 'tired' in any way, it's full of energy and spirit, they did a fabulous job.
3-i think the production is great, it sounds 'full' despite the fact that there are no keyboards there, it's very 'classic mac' yet it doesn't sound like something which was recorded in the 70's or 80's.
4-when you write 'up to date sound' what do you mean exactly? system of a down? nelly? las ketchup sound? no thank you.
5-in my wildest dreams i couldn't have imagined we will get the biggest amount of new FM music EVER in 2003. in this double album i'm sure every FM fan will find his/her niche and so would you.
since i first heard this recording my waiting for the complete album has become more and more anxious, and i just can't decide where i'm gonna fly to see them this time!!!

MissJanet · #5 01-05-2003, 07:08 AM

I can see it from two points. Thrown Down sounds like a Stevie song with a great musical background and fine guitar work, or it sounds like a Lindsey song wich happens to have Stevie on vocals. And that is my problem with it. FM without Christine McVie cannot sound like a group, they will be the combined solo efforts of Stevie and Lindsey. Not bad, but not what FM is about.
I'm guite sure that Christine will be missed alot when the album is out.

nae · #6 01-05-2003, 08:14 AM

I agree with you MissJanet~ Christine will be missed~I love Stevie's solo work, and I like Lindsey on his own, S&L together, etc...but to me, none of them have ever sounded better than when they're all FIVE playing together~I have a feeling the new album will be really good, but I'm not getting my hopes up for another ground breaker like Rumors~Also, it's not so much the cd
I'm looking foward to, it's the TOUR!

Nae

WelshWitchPMD · #7 01-05-2003, 08:38 AM

I am still trying to let Thrown Down grow on me. I like the TISL demo better. I don't know why I do.

Street Angel · #8 01-05-2003, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MissJanet
FM without Christine McVie cannot sound like a group, they will be the combined solo efforts of Stevie and Lindsey. Not bad, but not what FM is about.
I'm guite sure that Christine will be missed alot when the album is out.

This is not intended to sound harsh or rude, but let´s look at the opposite example: What was the "Time" album then? "Christine McVie & Her All-Star Band" ?

David · #9 01-05-2003, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve
I now this will appear blasphamous, but I hope "Thrown Down" was just a leak (even not final version) and is not the lead track from the new album. To me, "TD" sounds very late 80's, early 90's. It doesn't have a fresh, dynamic, up-to-date sound. Stevie's TISL had that sound (including the lead track and "Planets"). In fact, "Planets" blows "TD" out of the water in terms of song and production. I expect more from FM, especially under Lindsey's thumb (well..we were just happy to get them together for "Twisted").

I liked "Thrown Down" when I heard it but I thought it sounded too mainstream. Also, I didn't sense staying power in it for me; I don't think I'll be listening to it ten years from now with the kick I still feel listening to some of the tunes on "Rumours" or the Dog & Dustbin album.

Actually, though, in light of what you said, I have to reply that essentially "Thrown Down" pleases me & displeases me in the same ways as "Planets" on Stevie's solo album. I find that both songs have the same strengths & weaknesses to me. I find them both extremely mainstream/commercial of a certain type, which I guess is a benefit to some & a drawback to others. From my own point of view, that's a drawback. I think the "Planets" production had some embarrassments in it, namely the cheesy & derivative synth-generated engine-like sounds preceding the bridge. One of the strengths of "Thrown Down" is its thick, lustrous sheen. But both "Planets" & "Thrown Down" lack the energy of a great funk tune; both seem a little sluggish. When I listen to the production style of both songs, I don't sense visionary excitement in the capabilities of the medium.

I'm sure the Mac will take some interesting musical chances on this new album. I don't think the four of them would be content to go for just a slick radio-friendly sound on each & every track.

Mac Fan · #10 01-05-2003, 11:58 AM

I've never heard this song, so I can't comment on it.(Someone on here did ask if I wanted it on MP3, but hasn't sent it yet)

Steve · #11 01-05-2003, 12:19 PM

By up-to-dates sound, I mean a contemporary sounding production, while keeping the great style (writing, melodies, harmonies, quirkiness, etc.).

Need an example?: When "Street Angel" came out, it sounded like it could have been produced in 1983. In contrast, "TISL" sounded like it was produced in 2001 - it had a fresh sound. I would use a FM example, but it's just been too long.

I'm not saying I think "Thrown Down" sucks, I'm saying I hope it's not the lead track and is not indicative of overall production sound on the album.

On a scale from 1 to 10, I consider the song a 7 or 8. I am expecting a 9 or 10 for the lead track.

It's been 20 years since the last great Lindsey produced Stevie studio song. I still think it's(they) on the new album. Sorry, but I don't think "Thrown Down" is it.

brass_monkey · #12 01-05-2003, 12:30 PM

Steve, you said exactly what I was thinking. TD is a fairly bland song, although it's moderately catchy. The lyrics are typical Stevie, i.e. banal high school "poetry" delivered in her usual irritating third-person style.

If you compare the (finished?) version with the Stevie demo, the only obvious difference is in the production. Also, the recorded quality of the vocals is surprisingly poor - very thin and reedy.

I think this track was leaked deliberately to try to "stoke up" excitement among the fans prior to the album's release. It's quite a common tactic. Nike do a similar thing with their new sneakers. If this is the case, then I fear that it doesn't bode well for the rest of the album.

I don't hate TD, it's just unadventurous.

jwd · #13 01-05-2003, 12:53 PM

I have to agree with the general consensus of what's been posted here. "Thrown Down"...a good song, but not what I'd expect to be a "lead off" single from the album. An appealing tune but not "adventurous" enough as brass-monkey put it. Now "Big Love" WAS a good first single...love grunts and all!

Joe

CarneVaca · #14 01-05-2003, 01:40 PM

Steve:

You made some good points. It's not a bad song; it's just bland. Lindsey did a marvelous job with what he was handed.

Sorcerer386 · #15 01-05-2003, 03:01 PM

Quote:

The lyrics are typical Stevie, i.e. banal high school "poetry"

Do you really think "typical Stevie" lyrics are like banal high school poetry? Just having come out of high school a few years ago and having to read some of the poetry that came out of my theme writing class, there's just no comparison. I think Thrown Down is so untypical of Stevie lyric wise, using more of the prose style Christine was known for.

Obviously Lindsey liked this song and saw its potential...and he must like the final production, or else you know it'd never have made it on the album. To add, basically no band is going to make their lead single some ground breaking, adventurous song. You want to stick with what's commercially viable, then the 2nd or 3rd single can be a little wilder. The first single should be catchy and normal to the sound of the band, especially one that hasn't been around much. Granted, Tusk was wildly adventurous, but was it not also a surprise to hit the top 10? I remember someone saying how surprising it was to have a song backed by a marching band hit the top 10 on the pop charts. FM can wait to release other wilder singles for you guys, but they need to re-establish their familiar ground, and I believe Thrown Down does that.

I don't see how this song is "bland," but I DO see how it can be labelled as "nonadventurous." When I played it for the first time to my friend, within the first 10 seconds he immediately said "this sounds 80s'ish." Yes, because it's got that SAME Big Love sounding background guitar to it. I'm happy with Thrown Down, I don't hear the vocals as lazy at all. The harmonies are dead on. It sounds like classic Fleetwood Mac, which is what they need to be right now.