Who edits the FM Rumours-era pages?

[aleuzzi]

Recently, I read through Wikpedia pages for the albums from 1975-current. I noticed that under personnel Lindsey is listed first (when he’s on an album). This makes sense. His name comes first alphabetically. However, Stevie is listed second (and first when Lindsey is not present). When I edited the order to be alphabetical for each album, someone reverted the pages and called my edits “not constructive.” I tried two more times and the changes were almost immediately reverted. I was then warned that I might lose editing privileges if I continued to make non-constructive edits. What?!

Even if there's an argument for listing first-to-last based on band member influence in recording each album, I doubt Stevie would be first or second name listed each time out…Nothing major here. Just annoying. I've never encountered this kind of think on Wikipedia before.

[HomerMcvie]

Stevie fans are BAT SH1T CRAZY?

They worship this old pruned up drone like she's the second coming, when in fact she's just an old pruned up drone.

It's truly amazing how stupid the masses are...

[Macfan4life]

Someone must have edited them back. This is what is says this morning "from the liner notes"

Adapted from the album's liner notes.[34]

Fleetwood Mac

Lindsey Buckingham – guitars, vocals
Mick Fleetwood – drums, percussion
Christine McVie – keyboards, synthesizer, vocals
John McVie – bass guitar
Stevie Nicks – vocals
Additional musician

Waddy Wachtel – rhythm guitar (on "Sugar Daddy")
Production

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Someone must have edited them back. This is what is says this morning "from the liner notes"

Adapted from the album's liner notes.[34]

Fleetwood Mac

Lindsey Buckingham – guitars, vocals
Mick Fleetwood – drums, percussion
Christine McVie – keyboards, synthesizer, vocals
John McVie – bass guitar
Stevie Nicks – vocals
Additional musician

Waddy Wachtel – rhythm guitar (on "Sugar Daddy")
Production

Yes, this is one they forgot to revert. Haha!

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Stevie fans are BAT SH1T CRAZY?

They worship this old pruned up drone like she's the second coming, when in fact she's just an old pruned up drone.

It's truly amazing how stupid the masses are...

If you look at the editor names, you’ll recognize a couple of them from years of Stevie worship on this site. Don’t really see them here anymore…

[WalkAThinLine.]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Recently, I read through Wikpedia pages for the albums from 1975-current. I noticed that under personnel Lindsey is listed first (when he’s on an album). This makes sense. His name comes first alphabetically. However, Stevie is listed second (and first when Lindsey is not present). When I edited the order to be alphabetical for each album, someone reverted the pages and called my edits “not constructive.” I tried two more times and the changes were almost immediately reverted. I was then warned that I might lose editing privileges if I continued to make non-constructive edits. What?!

Even if there's an argument for listing first-to-last based on band member influence in recording each album, I doubt Stevie would be first or second name listed each time out…Nothing major here. Just annoying. I've never encountered this kind of think on Wikipedia before.

I'm rather active on Wikipedia and noticed these changes and the resulting disciplinary actions that followed. Generally, it's a worthwhile practice to assume that editors are operating in good faith; the warnings that you received are harsher than what I would have given. Occasionally, we see adjustments to articles that go unsourced (particularly the additions of genres) and users (including myself) are often quick to revert them. I would encourage you to send a message to the user's talk page and explain the reasoning behind the edits to the personnel.

My understanding is that names are listed in the personnel either by alphabetical order or by when each member joined the band (starting with Fleetwood and ending with Nicks in the latter instance for songs and albums with the Rumours lineup). In other cases, the liner notes are referred to. However, this formatting is not uniformly observed on all pages as some edits occasionally slip through the cracks.

I hope this dispute doesn't discourage you from continuing to make edits on Wikipedia. For those who can provide sourced material to Wikipedia, I encourage you do so.

[Macfan4life]

I had the Mirage tour shirt. The listing of members put Stevie last.

Mick Fleetwood
John McVie
Lindsey Buckingham
Christine McVie
Stevie Nicks

That order is odd to me because it starts out with the founders of the band. But skips sequence and puts Lindsey ahead of Chris. Both women are listed last. My hunch is they wanted to split up the McVies?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/35648205670...Bk9SR9KUkuy-ZQ

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by WalkAThinLine.

I'm rather active on Wikipedia and noticed these changes and the resulting disciplinary actions that followed. Generally, it's a worthwhile practice to assume that editors are operating in good faith; the warnings that you received are harsher than what I would have given. Occasionally, we see adjustments to articles that go unsourced (particularly the additions of genres) and users (including myself) are often quick to revert them. I would encourage you to send a message to the user's talk page and explain the reasoning behind the edits to the personnel.

My understanding is that names are listed in the personnel either by alphabetical order or by when each member joined the band (starting with Fleetwood and ending with Nicks in the latter instance for songs and albums with the Rumours lineup). In other cases, the liner notes are referred to. However, this formatting is not uniformly observed on all pages as some edits occasionally slip through the cracks.

I hope this dispute doesn't discourage you from continuing to make edits on Wikipedia. For those who can provide sourced material to Wikipedia, I encourage you do so.

Thanks for the kind words.

In all cases, the listing of personnel on these pages, before I edited them, placed Lindsey first, then Stevie second, then Christine, then John, then Mick. But this established order wasn’t based on any liner notes or any source material. It appears to have been a personal choice by the creators. It makes no sense and only serves the Stevie-Lindsey saved Fleetwood Mac narrative.

My decision to arrange the names alphabetically served the idea of the band as a collective. However, the true order should be seniority, in which Mick and John are listed first, then Christine, then Lindsey and Stevie. To place Stevie so prominently on the list has to do with fandom. That’s all. Considering that she doesn’t play an instrument and has the least amount of songs per-album, listing her this way is conspicuous, especially when she gets top billing in Lindsey’s absence.

[HomerMcvie]

I have that Mirage shirt. Most of my concert shirts from that era are pretty must dust now, I guess just from years of sitting in a box in my closet.

Plus, it's a medium, and the beer drinker in me killed that possibility a long time ago.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I have that Mirage shirt. Most of my concert shirts from that era are pretty must dust now, I guess just from years of sitting in a box in my closet.

Plus, it's a medium, and the beer drinker in me killed that possibility a long time ago.

I had it, too. Got it in 1984, when I was thirteen, so the size was a men's small. Naturally, I outgrew it by the time I reached seventeen.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

I had it, too. Got it in 1984, when I was thirteen, so the size was a men's small. Naturally, I outgrew it by the time I reached seventeen.

I've got two Tusk shirts that no longer fit, either!

[Villavic]

My The Dance t-shirt I have doesn't include the members names. Just the tour cities in the back. But the poster in my room has their portraits in the bottom: Mick, Christine, Lindsey, John and Stevie.

And my 2014 tour t-shirt includes the names horizontally in the back. The order is Lindsey, Mick, Christine, John and Stevie. Frankly I didn't mind the names in my t-shirts. Just the picture, the name Fleetwood Mac and the name or year of the tour. So I didn't pay attention in the names order. Just when I read this thread I checked them.

But a wikipedia page is kind of a document. Anyway, as long as the instruments they play, or if vocals role are mentioned, I don’t mind the order in the Personnel section. Cause at first glance nothing specifies the order reason. Checking other albums pages, The Wall page lists Roger and David first. The Hotel California, Glenn and Don first. The Sgt. Pepper’s, John and Paul first. So I would have ordered based on songwriting importance. But actually, there is no rule. In the BTM page, Billy is first followed by Mick, Christine, John, Stevie and Rick.
So if there is no rule, it seems absurd to me to call an edition “not constructive”. I’d answer that people Get a life.

[Mr Scarrott]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I had the Mirage tour shirt. The listing of members put Stevie last.

Mick Fleetwood
John McVie
Lindsey Buckingham
Christine McVie
Stevie Nicks

That order is odd to me because it starts out with the founders of the band. But skips sequence and puts Lindsey ahead of Chris. Both women are listed last. My hunch is they wanted to split up the McVies?

I remember the ads I saw for the 2014/15 tour which announced the line-up in alphabetical order, which had Stevie last and no "and" before her name to hype her up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE3rCjlt618

Then, the next tour, when Fleetwood Mac didn't have a boss-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSvhGBagRwE

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

I remember the ads I saw for the 2014/15 tour which announced the line-up in alphabetical order, which had Stevie last and no "and" before her name to hype her up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE3rCjlt618

Then, the next tour, when Fleetwood Mac didn't have a boss-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSvhGBagRwE

I think Stevie was always last on the tour stuff. The band sort of knew many of her fans flock to see her and people were already calling her the "lead" singer of the band. Because she yielded that star power she was always put last to make a point. I think its also the same reason Stevie never had a lead single off an album nor had the first song on any side (except for the double album Tusk and Angel). The more popular she became the more the band tried to downplay her. Had her solo album been a total flop I bet she would have been given 4 songs on Mirage. Just my opinion.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

If you look at the editor names, you’ll recognize a couple of them from years of Stevie worship on this site. Don’t really see them here anymore…

If you make an edit, you can explain why. I edited the Pious Bird, English Rose, and The Original FM pages to add Christine. I made a point to add “-SteveMacD” specifically because I recognized one name in particular.