FM Family Tree

[bjk3047]

I just saw that there was a UK production of Fleetwood Mac called "Rock Family Trees" that charted all the lineups. That got me to thinking... Has anyone seen the liner notes for one of the Jethro Tull albums (I can't remember which) which charts it all in a family tree? It think with all the different things FM personnel were involved in, that could be a very interesting project to map out. Or is it too much work?? Eh, just an idea...
-Brian

[wondergirl9847]

http://www.velvetmoondesigns.com/tusktour.html

Brian, go here to see that in the Tusk tourbook, there is a "family tree" drawn by Pete Frame...it is in the middle of the page.

Unless, of course, you meant, with ALL the various similar artists like John Stewart, Walter Egan, etc...then, dang, that would be a big job!! LOL

[bjk3047]

Yeah, that's the kind of thing I'm saying, but yes, to branch out to all those involved with the solo tours of the members of FM. I wouldn't go as far as to map out...say...Neale Heyward's individual endeavors, but to mention that he was a part of LB's band. Anyone up for it?
-Brian

[wetcamelfood]

I'd be up for chipping in with anything any of the 16 FM members did but I don't think I'd be able to add much beyond that (Neale Heywood, etc.) whatever you think, let me know.

John

[bjk3047]

Awesome, John!
This first part of the tree should probably be in the Pre-Rumours board, but as a whole, we'll make it to the point in tree where this board should be quite apt.
First off, as very small-ly pictured in Pete Frame's version, we need info on Mick and John's earliest endeavors. If no one has the Tusk tourbook to contribute from, I believe all the personnel is mentioned in Mick's book early on. Here's what we need to fill in the gaps for the 1963-1967 period:

The Cheynes 1963-1965 (Mick, Pete Bardens...who else?)

Bo Street Runners 1965 (Mick...who else?)

Peter B's Looners 1965-1966 (Mick, Pete Bardens, Peter Green...who else?)

Shotgun Express 1966-1967 (Mick, Pete Bardens, Rod Stewart, Beryl Marsden...who else?)

John Mayall's Bluesbreakers 1967 (Mick, John McVie, John Mayall, Peter Green...who else?)

John's side (pretty easy):

John Mayall's Bluesbreakers 1962-1967
I don't have a lot on lineups of the Bluesbreakers, so we need that info.

How's that for a start?

-Brian

[Johnny Stew]

I scanned this from the "Save Me" CD single... sorry it's not better quality.
I did my best to brighten it a little, and adjust the contrast.

Ironically, I had to scan it in two parts and then piece it back together, because of its size, and now I've had to split it again... this time into three parts... because it was too large to post here.


Hope everyone can read it!



Johnny Stew

[Johnny Stew]

Part 2....

[Johnny Stew]

And Part 3, which brings us up to 1990....

[wetcamelfood]

Johnny Stew's attachements clear up most things (personnel in Cheynes, Bo Street Runners, etc.) as it was probably the Pete Frame stuff that I would've referred to and was/is of most help of course but I'll dig through what else I've got when I get a chance later to see if I can clean up some of the Mayall etc. stuff as I should probably start there.

John

[chiliD]

John Mayall's Bluesbreakers 1965-66:

John Mayall: vocals, guitar, keyboards, harmonica
Eric Clapton: guitar, vocals
John McVie: bass
Hughie Flint: drums (went on to form "McGuinness Flint" with Graham Lyle, Benny Gallagher, & Tom McGuinness...ANOTHER band named after the rhythm section and changed front people a few times)

The missing member of Peter B's Looners:
Dave Ambrose: bass (went on with Peter Bardens to form "Them" with Van Morrison...then was Eric Clapton's bass player on his "From The Cradle" album & tour...also played on later Robin Trower albums)

[wetcamelfood]

OK, I wasn't sure how far each "branch" was going to go but I found this (attachement) in the John Mayall compilation CD "Looking back"....

...so of course the only groups of interest here are 1-5 (and naturallly Mayall himself needs to be added to these lineups for "gtr/keyboards/harmonica/vocals" etc.).

I think I heard that Mcvie was fired on three seperate occasions for drinking (but I can't find specific dates) while with Mayall hence the "or Jack Bruce" parts of group three.

I understand group four with Aynsley ended in 3/67 while group four with Mick was from 4/67-6/67.

Group five really must have gone until 9/67 (and not 8/67) as we know that Mcvie would not leave Mayall originally (as the rest of FM recruited Bob Brunning for the 8/67-9/67 period) but did eventually leave Mayall to join FM in 9/67.

So, that (in effect) "takes care" of John Mcvie.

Now, I've been trying to sketch some things out but it seems it may work easier if we get something started and add to it from there. For instance, I'll start with Jeremy, as the only band I/we know of that he was in prior to FM was Litchfield England's "The Levi set" and (apparently) were a trio consisting of Jeremy (gtr/voc) and a bass player and a drummer but I can't seem to find the names of those two individuals. On top of which I can't find a solid time frame for them apart from the fact that they must have in essence "broke up" when Jeremy joined FM.

I'll list "what I've got" so far on the other "original" members below here but I'll put a "?" where I don't know something (and something like "Errol Dixon & The Honeydrippers" must have had more than PG & ED in the band but I left it at that as I don't know anything else about them other than what I listed) and hopefully some of you can help "fill them in" and we can move on from there (does this sound good Brian? or, should I PM/E mail you any additions? I wasn't sure how you/everyone else would like this to "take shape". Anyways, here's the "bare bones" of something to start with (in case it does turn out you'd like to do it here):

PETER GREEN

Group: Bobby Dennis(?/Denim?) & the Dominoes (originally knowm as"The ken cats"
Time frame: ?
Lineup: Peter Green (bass), Bobby Dennis(?/Denim?) (?)

Group: The Didlos
Time frame: ?
Lineup: Peter Green (bass)

Group: The Muskrats
Time frame: ?
Lineup: Peter Green (bass), Dave Bidwell (drums), Roger Pearce (guitar)

Group: The Tridents
Time frame: "Spring" 1965 - 9/65
Lineup: Peter Green (bass)

Group: John Mayall's Bluesbreakers
Time frame: 10/65 (only a couple of weeks, PG filled in for EC while he was in Greece)
Lineup: Peter Green (guitar), John Mayall (gtr/keyboards/harmonica/vocals), John Mcvie/Jack Bruce (bass), Hughie Flint (drums)

Group: Errol Dixon & The Honeydrippers
Time frame: 11/65-1/66 (only one gig, rest of time unemployed)
Lineup: Peter Green (guitar), Errol Dixon (keyboards)

Groups: Peter B's Looners (see Johnny Stew's attachements)...and so on.

BOB BRUNNING

Group: Lee Peterson & The Defenders
Time frame: 1960's?
Lineup: Bob Brunning (bass), Lee Peterson (voc?), ? (gtr), ? (gtr), ? (sax), ? (drums?)

Group: Five's Company
Time frame: 1965?-8/67?
Lineup: Bob Brunning (bass), Colin Jordan (gtr), Ian Pearson (drums), Eddie Broadbridge (vocals), Steve Jones (keyboards)

...then he went to FM and then the "post" FM bands (Savoy Brown, Brunning Sunflower... and so on but I wasn't sure if you just wanted "pre" ones or what. Whatever you think, let me know how "completest" you want to be on this and whether I should PM/E mail you further additions or what OK? Thanks Brian.

John

[bjk3047]

Well done John! Can't ask for much more thourough info than that! First off, I'd say additions should stay here in this thread, always good to have everything together in one place. It's up for debate really, as to what to do with Bob. I'd say, in the spirit of the care we'd take with LB or SN's solo endeavors, it would make sense to map it all out. He was technically a member of the Mac. However, it just means more work in finding the info and finding room on the tree lol. Should be fine though.

Regarding the construction of the tree, I'm going to have to do it manually by taking Pete Frame's 1990 edition (courtesy of Johnny Stew, big help!), constructing a font based on that, and just simply adding to it. Since it just comes down to adding lines, it should look the same and as professional as the truncated original. Once I get the scans and make the font, I'll make some prototypes and post them so we can see if it comes out the way envisioned. This could be a very interesting project!
-Brian

[wetcamelfood]

Sounds great to me, I'll try and get together some info on Bob Brunning's "post" Mac band lineups and post them here later today (in case everyone does decide to "keep him in" and want the "post" as well as "pre" FM band lineups for his "branch" (if it is kept).

Sorry, but I've got more questions, since you say you'd like to eventually document things such as SN & LB's solo touring/recording "bands" (when we get there!) should I go by the same "rule" for, say, Peter Green as since after FM he had his "End of the game" album and he did do some solo shows (I'd have to look up to see if those solo shows had the same lineup as the album but even then, I don't know if I have access to the "touring band" info or not...) but I hardly think it's the same thing to call it a "band" he had in 1970 for that album (as I thought I heard rumors to the effect that EOTG may very well have been a "contractual obligation" he had to fulfill with Reprise) especially since his next (fully fledged) band/album project wasn't until "In the skies" (which may make that an extra elongated branch!). So, in the end, would you/everyone like "those" kinds of things listed as well? Either way is fine with me. It would be easy enough to me to list the "main band" musicians on most of the albums as I've got virtually all of them but I wasn't sure how you/everyone felt about some of these things, know what I mean?). Thanks again Brian and in the meantime I'll get researching on post Mac Brunning soon!

John

[wetcamelfood]

Two areas to keep in mind for Bob Brunning are:

FIVE'S COMPANY - they did "reform" (though I'm not clear as to whether it was just an on record reforming or what) in 1969 for the "Ballad of Fred the pixie" album. The lineup was Brunning on bass, Colin Jordan (guitar) & Eddie Broadbridge (though he had to be credited on the album as Eddie St. John for legal reasons) on keyboards & vocals. The album doesn't state who plays drums though.

TRAMP - their first (classic!) album from 1969 had the lineup of Brunning on bass, Danny on guitar, Mick on drums, Bob Hall on keyboards, Dave Kelly (vocals) & Jo Ann Kelly (vocals). The second album, "Put a record on" from 1974 had the members of Tramp listed as all of the above but ALSO included Dave Brooks on sax and Ian Morton on percussion. Now it should also be noted that according to the notes on Mooncrest's 3 CD set of rare Jo Ann Kelly recordings (which include many Tramp recordings from 1974) that are of the following lineups:

"Put a record on (alternate version)" from her "Key to the highway" CD (Mooncrest, CRESTCD037) lists Brunning on bass, Jo Ann Kelly (voc), Bob Hall (keyboards), Peter Emery (gtr) & Pete Miles (drums).

"'Til my back ain't got no bone", "It's too late for that now (alternate version)", "Feel like breaking up somebody's home" & "You got to move (alternate version)" from the "Talkin' low" CD (Mooncrest, CRESTCD045) list Brunning on bass, Jo Ann Kelly (voc), Peter Emery (gtr), Bob Hall (keyboards), Dave Brooks (sax, though he's not on TMBAGNB) & Pete Miles (drums)

"'Til my back ain't got no bone (alternate version)", "Love blind", "Nicki hoeky", "Feel like breaking up somebody's home (alternate version)", "Put a record on (another alternate version!)", "Help me through the night" & "Travellin' mood" from the Jo Ann Kelly "Tramp" album (Mooncrest, CRESTCD063) list Brunning on bass, Jo Ann Kelly (voc), Bob Hall (keyboards), Pete Emery (gtr), Adrian "putty" Pietyga (gtr), Dave Brooks (sax), Pete Miles (drums) & "The Kokomo singers" (backing vocals).

"Baby what you want me to do (live)", "It's too late for that now (live)", "What you gonna do (live)", "You don't love me baby (live)", "Put a record on (live)" & "You got to move (live)" from the same CD (Mooncrest, CRESTCD063) list Brunning on bass, Jo Ann Kelly (voc), Bob Hall (keyboards), Danny Kirwan (gtr), Dave Brooks (sax) & Keef Hartley (drums).

...so, I wasn't sure how and/or if you wanted to include these "side" bands or not (especially since these "rare" Tramp recordings simply specify that it was "1974" it doesn't say when in relation to the PARO sessions any of it was so it would be hard to put this stuff in "order"), whatever you/everyone thinks is fine with me, I'm just passing on the info as best I can. So, I'll now proceed to what I came up with (for a start anways) for the Brunning "post Mac" branch:

after leaving FM...

Group: Savoy Brown
Time line: 9/67-10/67
Members: Brunning (bass), Kim Simmonds (gtr), Bob Hall (keyboards), Chris Youlden (voc), Martin Stone (gtr), Leo Manning (drums)

Group: Savoy Brown
Time line: 10/67-12/67?
Members: Brunning (bass), Kim Simmonds (gtr), Bob Hall (keyboards), "Lonesome" Dave Peverett (gtr/voc), Chris Youlden (voc), Hughie Flint (drums)

Group: Brunning Sunflower Blues Band
Time line: 1968?
Members: Brunning (bass), Bob Hall (keyboards), Colin Jordan (gtr), Jeff Russell (drums), Pete French (voc), Mick Halls (gtr)

Group: Brunning Sunflower Blues Band
Time line: 1969?
Members: Brunning (bass), Bob Hall (keyboards), Colin Jordan (gtr), Pete Banham (drums)

Group: Brunning Sunflower Blues Band
Time line: 1970?
Members: Brunning (bass), Bob Hall (keyboards), Dave Kelly (gtr/voc), Jo Ann Kelly (gtr/voc), Steve Rye (harmonica), John Altman (sax/flute/clarinet), Mel Wright (drums)

Group: Brunning (Hall) Sunflower Blues Band
Time line: 1971?
Members: Brunning (bass), Bob Hall (keyboards), Pat Grover (gtr/voc), John Hunt (drums, tour only), Leo Manning/Barry Guard (drums, album only), Jo Ann Kelly (gtr/voc, album only), Steve Rye (harmonica, album only), John O'Leary (harmonica, album only)

...then on to the...

Group: The Deluxe Blues Band
Time line: 1980-1987
Members: Brunning (bass), Bob Hall (keyboards), Danny Adler (gtr/voc), Mickey Waller (drums)

Group: The Deluxe Blues Band
Time line:1988-1990
Members: Brunning (bass), Bob Hall (keyboards), Danny Adler (gtr/voc), Mickey Waller (drums), Dick Heckstall-Smith (sax)

Group: The Deluxe Blues Band
Time line 1991-1992 (inactive)

Group: The Deluxe Blues Band
Time line: 1993-1997
Members: Brunning (bass), Dave Beaumont (gtr), Allan Vincent (gtr), Phil Taylor (voc), Mickey Waller (drums), Dick Heckstall-Smith (sax)

Group: The Deluxe Blues Band
Time line: 1998-1999 (inactive)

Group: The Deluxe Blues Band
Time line: 2000-(Present)?
Members: Brunning (bass), Daniel Smith (gtr), Dennis Mcgrath (gtr), Bill Smith (harmonica), Russell Baillie (voc), Reg Patton (drums)

So, I'll wait to see what (all of) you think about the PG question I posted about earlier before I delve in to his solo "bands". Any questions Brian, just let me know.

John

[Johnny Stew]

Here's a thought... instead of seperate branches for the solo endeavors... which might needlessly complicate the tree... how about an appendix for each Mac member (well, except those who've had their appendex removed ).

In the case of someone who has toured with more than one of the members, there can be a little notation next to their name.

For instance....
under Fleetwood Mac: Additional Tour Personnel, there would be a listing for Brett Tuggle... who would then have a notation stating "see also Mick Fleetwood's Zoo, and Stevie Nicks: Solo Tour Personnel."

And Neale Heywood's listing would say, "see also Lindsey Buckingham: Solo Tour Personnel, and Stevie Nicks: Solo Tour Personnel."

Then, if it's decided to do so, we can always add something like "Neale has also worked with Peter Bardens and Walter Egan."

And so on, and so on.

Anyway, it's just a thought. :-)



Johnny Stew