Quote:
Originally Posted by paleshadow
I definitely agree with much of what you are saying. I live in a more urban area and I know a lot of women who have used abortion as birth control, who have had education and resources available to them. I don't agree with this law as it is, but I think something should be done, but I don't begin presume to know what.
Being a male who is pro choice, I am always a little torn. I know that if I got someone pregnant, even if we used precautions, and she wanted to abort the pregnancy, I would be upset. As a male, we really don't have any say in that. My partner could say "I am not prepared to be a parent. I can't afford to raise a child" and I would not be able to force her to do that, but if the tables were turned and I said the same thing, and she chose to have the baby anyway, I'd still be forced to pay child support. That really has nothing to do with the original topic, but it just got me thinking about it.
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I'm not so sure "something should be done" about women using "abortion as birth control." To label it as such and then be able to have something done - whatever that something might be - would end up the same as this miscarriage thing. How do we decide what warrants having something done? Who gets to make that call? What criteria will be used to determine this?
For example, how many abortions would a woman have to have to be considered using it as birth control? Or, if numbers don't matter, will the woman in question have to somehow justify her reasoning behind getting the abortion to other people? All of this strays into the dangerous territory of trying to legislate morality. If the folks overseeing this process decide they don't like her reasoning, well, then she's going to be screwed, right?
I'm pro-choice, too (obviously). For me, abortion was not right when it came to my kiddos. FOR ME. But my reasoning, thought processes, and morals are my own - I refuse to try to make someone else adhere to them. And even though I say right now that abortion is not right FOR ME, I don't know what the future holds. Something could happen that would change my mind, make me need to get one, too.
I've seen a lot of teen pregnancy, from my own to that of my friends. Being a parent is a damn tough row to hoe regardless of your age, but your problems are doubly compounded when you're often not old enough to even drive. I've seen it turn out outstandingly well, such as in the case of my best friend in high school, who got pregnant at 15, and then worked her ass off to take care of her son, and not only finish school but graduate with high honors. She's now manager of a large apartment complex, makes a good living, and has a beautiful family.
I've also seen it turn out appallingly badly, where it resulted in being stuck in a cycle of poverty with very little viable way out at best or in abuse, neglect, desperation and a very grim future at worst.
That said, I do think fathers should have rights, too. I just have no earthly clue how to make that happen, since in the end, women are usually the ones that have to cart the fetus around until it's at least 18.
We need a radical shift in how we, as a people, view pregnancy and parenting roles in order for any of this to reach a solution everyone can be okay with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carrie721
resident resentful bitch here to call you on your ****.
you're speaking with the arrogance of someone raised in an urban environment and who's also, like, 4.  it's very likely you had a more sophisticated understanding of sex at age 10 than she has at 17.
no matter how brutal her methods, i don't see much of a difference between her actions and clinical abortion. more than anything, her behavior reeks of desperation, and that desperation is only going to increase on a large scale now that all women who miscarry in the state of utah are essentially guilty until proven innocent.
whether or not what that girl did is abhorrent/inexcusable/whatever, attempting to draw a legal line between different types of miscarriage is dangerous and essentially renders all prego women subservient to the whims of their uterus. her case is a red herring and an attempt to distract people from the actual threat, which is the legislation itself. |
Thank you. You said that better than I was able to. I blame my liberal application of Desk On (Apply Directly to the Forehead!) upon reading that article. Even just throwing the word "abortion" around in this is a red herring - it preys on emotions, because most people have an inevitable kneejerk emotional reaction to the word, whatever their particular position on the subject might be.
This is not about whether or not what the girl did was wrong. It's not even about whether or not abortion is wrong. It's about whether or not a woman might end up accused of murder because her uterus rejected the pregnancy for whatever reason.