[The Tower]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Interestingly, and to stir it up just a little

I get that Clinton tried and failed - but so did W, who indeed went into Afgan, etc.

At least Clinton has the stuff to admit his failures. W never will. Which is the point.

So, despite Clinton's posturing (based in fact though) - - what does this interview show about how the D's would have handled 9/11 (post) differently. Remember almost all D's voted for the war in Afgan and for the war in Iraq. So, they can make the argument that W screwed those up, which he did, but they will likely as history demonstrates be seen as flipp flopping.

One, the debate wasn't about the hypothetical about what a Gore administration would have done, it was about what Clinton didn't do-all in an attempt to deflect blame away from Dubya and put it ALL on Clinton. Again- zero accountability. It's not as cut-and-dry as you'd like to put it.

So, my question is, what can the D's show to the American people that will demonstrate they are not weak on national defense, etc. I can tell you I think that talking about no spying...

Disinformation. The democrats want the W administration to follow the law instead of creating enemy lists and files. It doesn't have anything to do with not being able to "spy".

...and no torture ain't gonna cut it because most Americans do not care about that...

Wrong again. I think most americans care about whether or not our government tortures people.

and, mostly correctly, think those avenues had lead to stopping the terrorists.

Wrong again. Most successful interrogation methods involve working with the suspect to get valid information. To torture someone is just a "thrown-one's-hands-up-in-the-air" / easy way out solution that is completely barbaric.

So, what are the D's gonna do is the question.

Phased redeployment and on the ground detective work- just like British intelligence did with those London airplane jerks.

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

There was an article awhile back that said some of the confessions were valid. of course, we will never really know the truth, etc.

Torture is illegal, morally wrong and barbaric. Nothing justifies torture. End of story.

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

1. Any notion that the US should get out of Iraq completely today is not only inhumane, but a death sentence for any candidate. Powell correctly said we broke it and now have to fix it. The D's should implement a year or so schedule for staged withdrawal, etc.

That's their plan Jason- where the hell have you been? I don't think anyone in congress or part of the democratic establishment has stated that they want complete and immediate withdrawl. Phased redeployment.