[michelej1]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

And this is where context, hindsight, purpose of interview, and memory come into play. There's a real lack of consistency and real contradiction in what's said so it can be difficult to find the 'truth'. In their lies and in their 'truths'.

I think people reveal the truth in their lies. So, the things they choose to lie about are actually very instructive and important. However, no two people are going to agree on what is the lie and what the truth is.

Originally Posted by nicole21290

I tend to be more interested in how they are NOW rather than what went down in the past anyway, to be honest.

But I see them as inextricable. I think people revert to their past behaviors often. You can go awhile without it happening, but like a rubber band, the past only lets you go so far before it snaps you right back and old hurts, old attitudes and old anger start cropping up again. I think this last tour went extremely well for the most part, but I wouldn't be surprised if their relationship takes two steps back now.

As for songs, I think those like Sara and Tusk are about several things and people. Don gets a verse. Mick. Jess. OJ. I think there are many songs that are amorphous like that. But I also think there are songs that are about two people. I consider, Show You How, for instance, as one of those. I think it's about Stevie, but I think it's about Kristen too. I think Stevie is the shadow singer, for sure, but I don't think of her as also the one who shows him what it's all about when the lights go out. I see him as thanking Kristen for showing him that there's a life beyond the stage curtain. So, I see the song as being both about an addiction to Stevie, deep, lingering in places where no one ever goes. But I think it's also about realizing a world after that and being pulled out of the abyss, away from the spectre.

Originally Posted by nicole21290

The 'saving' idea is actually a consistent theme for both of them, though

The saving idea is a martyr's fantasy. I mean, I'd like to know how often he was really like the protagonist in Under the Skin. Probably, not as frequently as he'd like to think. Or someone's got to sacrifice if the thing is going to turn out right. It's a theme repeated, but how often are sacrifices really made?

But yes, I think they both put themselves in the role of savior more often than they deserve to be. As for Lindsey wanting to be saved, sure. In fact, I see lines like "I fall down I get up" or "we fall down, we get up" as a wish for resiliency in relationships that was too often lacking. Let's push through this breach. Let's take a drink from the loving cup and mend the friction. I think it's another way of saying "save us."

With Gone Too Far, he says "save me" but the words of the chorus seem to contradict the verses and it's a confusing use of pronouns. I don't think he's asking for help, so much as saying "I want to be spared from watching your pain, when you're alone and lost -- and missing me."

As you said, it's sometimes someone else speaking or two people speaking and it's not clear which one is talking, from line to line.

So, I don't really see Gone Too Far as a "save" song. But "Someone's got to set you free" or "Deep Down There is Freedom" or "I'll come back to get you," yes, I see those as all saying, at the end of this, I'll rescue you.

Originally Posted by nicole21290

The problem is I don't think it IS just a musical love. She's also said he was her romantic love (when she wasn't busy saying it was Joe, lol). The thing with music for them, though, is music is a way of expression, their life, a prism through which they show and understand, and is integral to who they are are people.

But I think communicating through music, loving through music is a trap or a crutch, because it kept them from relating in more fundamental ways that are necessary for the mundane, domestic necessities of life.

I always imagine the conversation, "Well, I'm going home on the bus. You have the car, so you take Ginny," as being more of the planning as a team that they should have been doing and if they had, one of them wouldn't have always have been blowing up, slamming the door and running out. That kind of 'you do this and I'll do that and we'll acommplish X' is something that they don't seem to have worked out very well in all these decades. Instead, they call their managers and write songs about it. The musical love hampers and strangled the other, because it became the default mode of communication.

Originally Posted by nicole21290

They seem to be able to talk, even about things other than demos, lol. And not just discussing what sports and hobbies Lindsey has to drive the children to. They have a shared life, shared memories, that probably provide plenty of conversation.

Sure, Lindsey has said that he's shared more with FM than he has his blood family, so they have those roots. And Stevie said when something bad happens (like a family death or something) she calls Lindsey on the phone and gets emotional upon hearing his voice because they've known each other for so long. She'll say something like she was the one who answered the phone and had to hand it to him, when they called to say his father died.

And they haven't mentioned his brother's death, but I feel it must have played a part in his Behind The Mask appearances. I think the band must have called him when it happened and lo and behold he shows up on stage in December. I see a relationship between those things. I think they've shared a great amount. I just don't think they have much in common.

To me, even in Stevie's re-creation of her Rhiannon conversation with Lindsey "isn't that a pretty name? Yes Stevie, it is a pretty name," that Lindsey is thinking to himself, "what in the devil?" I mean, that's not even the real Lindsey. It's Stevie's impersonation of Lindsey and I don't think even the impersonation is that interested in her whimsy.

On the other hand, when they did Soldier's Angel together, I kind of fantasize that they had discussions about politics and probably agreed. So, I think they can relate on some level about things outside of music. I just don't think they can share as much as she did with Dave Stewart. And even though she was with Dave to record an album, the daily dinners she described, the dressing up, the parties, even the theatrical way they posed in all of those pictures together (pictures I did not want Dave in) revealed two people who mesh psychologically. I don't think she has that with Lindsey, although she does with Mick. Of course, she and Dave can't create what she and Lindsey did, in my book, but I think they could have a marriage.

And when Lindsey had Stevie over to his house and showed her his family, I think he wanted to kind of give her the fun she had talked about having with Dave, but it's not going to be the same, precisely because I do think she looks at Lindsey's children as hers, potentially and with the pleasure of being around them that she takes in all kids, especially girls, comes a little pain when his daughters are involved.

I was at the concert when she announced Stella's birth after their break. And she was about to say "we" had a baby, but she changed it and I thought it was adorable -- and a little heart-tugging.

Michele