Fleetwood Mac Fan Club and Presale FAQ
 

Let's get some question listed that we would like included in this FAQ. Once completed it can serve as an informational section for those who are considering joining, it can bring people (including FM management) up to speed on what has happened, or perhaps it could be used for those who are seeking refunds. I can continuously edit this first message as the FAQ becomes more and more complete. I need everyone's help though in putting it together-- this can be in the contribution of questions and answers. I know that for many this is an emotionally charged issue but just the facts here! If there is anything at all that we are unsure of then it should clearly be indicated as such. Here are a couple of initial questions...please add as many to the list as you want. If you want to start writing out answers, that would be cool too. If you see answers you do not think are completely accurate or complete, tell us too!

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Questions

1. When was the fanclub started? [ Answer ]
   
2. How much does it cost? [ Answer ]
   
3. What was included with membership? [ Answer ]
   
4. What kind of seats were available at the presales? [ Answer ]
   
5. What are my chances of getting front row seats? [ Answer ]
   
6. What does the term "seats in the best 20% of the house" mean? [ Answer ]
   
7. The fanclub says many tickets in the block of seats put away for its members will be in rows 1-30. How realistic are my chances of being offered seats in those rows? [ Answer ]
   
8. The fanclub says that no one except VIPS and Season Ticket Holders will have access to any seats in an arena before the fanclub members - is this true? [ Answer ]
   
9. The fanclub says if the seats in the fanclub block sellout, the fanclub members will "rollover" into the rest of the seats in the venue and will be offered the best seats first. [ Answer ]
   
10. I've seen the term "slow rollout" being used, what does the term mean? [ Answer ]
    
11. I've seen the term "top selldown" being used, what does the term mean? [ Answer ]
    
12. I see lots of great seats in the first 30 rows available on Ebay and through ticket brokers, where did they get these seats? [ Answer ]
    
13. Will the fanclub notify me of media & print appearances by bandmembers during the tour? [ Answer ]
    
14. Do Lindsey & Stevie have any involvement in the fanclub? [ Answer ]
    
15. Does the fanclub offer any discounted merchandise & cds to its members? [ Answer ]
    
16. Are fans satisfied with the way the fanclub is being run? [ Answer ]
    
17. Is there any one on one communication between the fanclub management and its members. What happens if I have a problem, is there someone I can talk to or email who will answer my questions? [ Answer ]
    
18. Are refunds available from the fanclub? [ Answer ]
    
19. What are venue presales and how can I get access to them? What types of seats are offered at these sales? [ Answer ]
    
20. Can I ask Lindsey or Stevie a question through the fanclub? Do they read the message board on Mick's site? [ Answer ]
    
21. What happens if my password does not work on the day of my presale, is there someone who I can contact and what help and assistance can I expect from them? [ Answer ]
    
22. What happens if I jump the gun at the presale on Ticketmaster before the time specified? [ Answer ]
    
23. The fanclub membership specifies 20 tickets for each member for this "leg" of the tour, what does the term "leg" mean and how will this effect future tours for this cd? [ Answer ]
    
24. Will the fanclub notify me if additional dates are added to my city or to the tour? [ Answer ]
    
25. Many fanclubs are addressing the problem of scalpers buying up the best seats, what is the Fleetwood Mac fanclub doing to protect the best seats from scalpers and enusuring that its members get access to them first? [ Answer ]
    
26. Does the FM Fanclub and FM Official Site have any connection or contact with this site or other fan sites? [ Answer ]
    
27. What happens if my password does not work on the day of the presale and I am unable to buy tickets, can the fanclub provide me with seats to make up for the error, or will they refund my membership dues? [ Answer ]
    
28. Does my FM Fanclub Membership also give me access to Mick Fleetwood's Site and his message board? [ Answer ]
    
29. Is the fanclub offering any special merchandise for its members and will that merchandise be available to the general public if I don't join the fanclub? [ Answer ]
    
30. Is the fanclub open to non US residents? [ Answer ]
    
31. What will the overseas fans be offered through the fanclub, will we have presales if they tour in our country? [ Answer ]
    
32. What is the cost to renew my membership next year? [ Answer ]
    
33. Will I be able to buy tour merchandise through the fanclub if I can't attend a concert? [ Answer ]
    
34. Do Stevie and Lindsey have their own fanclub that I can join? [ Answer ]
    
35. Will fanclub members get to meet the bandmembers before or after their shows? I belong to some other artists fanclubs and this happens at some shows, are there any plans for this if I join the FM fanclub? [ Answer ]
    

Answers

1. In December 2002, there was a lot of discussion for a Mick Fleetwood Fan Club. Annual membership fees were reportedly going to cost up to $90. Members were to receive a CD from Mick's band Mojo (which was to be released to the public at a later date), 3-D glasses to see exclusive content on mickfleetwood.com, an autographed photo, and discounts from merchandise purchased through his website. This idea apparently has at least been temporarily suspended as the Official Fleetwood Mac fan club has been started. Memberships for this began selling the week of February 10, 2003. [ Return to Top ]

   
   

2. Initially the Fleetwood Mac fan club was $59.95 for a one-year membership. The dues were raised to $79.95 just prior to the first concert presale (March 13th). AOL members may be able to still purchase membership for $59.95 (confirmation or denial of this would be appreciated) [ Return to Top ]

   
   
   

3. The following is a direct quote from Fleetwood Mac.com as to the benefits of becoming a member of the fanclub:
   
   Quote:

   ADVANCE NEWS & CONCERT NOTIFICATION Advance e-mail notification of Fleetwood Mac Concerts and Special Member-Only News! As a member you’ll receive periodic e-mails notifying you of concert venues and dates with instructions on how to purchase advance tickets. These e-mails will also often contain information to keep you up to date on news about Fleetwood Mac. ADVANCE TICKET PURCHASE OPTIONS FOR FAN CLUB MEMBERS – You’ll Create Your Private Membership USER NAME as soon as you join. Your User Name allows you to purchase up to 4 tickets PER CONCERT for most venues. We’ve set aside Preferred Seating in Special Fan Club Seating Rows generally located within the BEST 20% of floor seating at most venues! Members will generally receive 2 Day Advance Purchasing before the general public can order tickets! You’ll link to Ticketmaster right through the Fan Club Site and purchase at regular rates direct through Ticketmaster! Seat selection for Fan Club Members is based on Fan Club Member demand and availability at each concert and every Member has an equal chance of getting exquisite seats. Even if a show you’re trying to get tickets for has Fan Club Reserve Seating sold out when you log on for tickets, you’re still able to select from the Club's reserved public ticket block BEFORE the block goes on sale to the general public! YOU’RE VIRTUALLY GUARANTEED SEATING AS A FAN CLUB MEMBER! Note - Most venues offer Advance Ticket Purchasing and Special Fan Seating. Some restrictions apply. INSIDER NEWS Log onto the Fleetwood Mac Fan Club and check out the Insider News area for the most detailed news and information available straight from Fleetwood Mac! AUDIO & VIDEO & PHOTO EXCLUSIVES This area just rocks! Exclusive audio and video files from the Band Members at home and from the road make this the coolest part of the Fan Club! Everything from audio or video backstage after a show to interviews on the plane to concert shots will be produced and electronically sent to us for fast posting by the road team “living with the Mac”. We’ve trained them and armed them with cameras and mic’s. Watch these pages and you’ll be as close as you can get to the REAL Fleetwood Mac Story! Can’t wait? Start right now with a special tour of the studio where the new album “Say You Will” was recorded! This area includes a narrated tour of the studio’s rooms by Mick along with a couple of “virtual rooms” where you can navigate around the room and see everything at your own pace

   In order to join the fanclub, it was necessary to agree to the following disclaimer:
   
   Quote:

   "Club Membership does not promise or offer any specific seating or preferential treatment other than as described on the “Club Info” page at this site. You agree to abide by all rules set forth on the Member portion of the site and in any Member communication. Membership is valid for one full year from date of purchase and is non-refundable. You understand that you may not get either access to a specific concert, access to Fan Seating Blocks in any specific concert or any seating at a specific concert based on demand and availability from the venues. You understand that systems the Club uses may fail during critical times and you agree to accept the Club’s final determination on any Club related issues arising from internet or software/hardware failure."

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28. Registration on Mick Fleetwood's message board is free. It is not necessary to join the Fleetwood Mac fanclub to post. [ Return to Top ]

    
    

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Again as I posted in my other thread though, The Penguin and The Ledge are not associated with or responsible in any way for the fan club. As this is an issue that affects so many of our members though, I think it is appropriate to address it here.

- Marty

Re: Fleetwood Mac Fan Club and Presale FAQ
 

Here's some answers, Marty:

1. --- Don't know the date but it was in January, I believe.
2. It was $59.95, then it was upped to $79.95
3. No merch or anything! Just the pre-sale, a few crappy videos (more are promised), and some lousy question and answers.
4. Supposedly the best 20%, rows 1-30 in most venues.
5. NOPE! All inquiries to refunds have been ignored by Mr. Jonathan Todd, Pres. and CEO of SabreMark, Inc., AKA "The Knight"

Hope this helps! :)

Question: Can anyone confirm that this is what was known as a "top down" presale?

the "odds"
 

Chances of FRONT ROW seats aside...

Even if they get the "benefit of the doubt" legally under this "you have a CHANCE of getting best 20% seats etc.". What I wonder is if it ever said in the terms etc. what the ODDS were/are in this "chance" you would get a seat in the "best 20%..." etc. as I assume by the same token, lottery tickets etc. (albeit in VERY small print) need to state the very slim odds of winning on those somewhere (maybe on the back side? I don't buy those myself so I wouldn't know but that would seem rather academic).

Maybe I'm wrong though but I think if many fans had the chance of seeing what the slim odds were, they may have thought twice about joining (if there were any odds at all in the first place). Just a thought. :)

So, since I wasn't in the FC I don't know so this is why I ask, does anyone know if it said the odds anywhere in the FC terms?

John

Re: the "odds"
 

It doesn't matter whether or not they legally worded their terms correctly, John. If a company has (blantantly) taken unfair advantage of consumers, regardless of whether it stayed within the law or not, under Californian law it can and will be heavily investigated and legal proceedings may proceed if there are enough complaints/the complaint(s) is(are) serious enough. Read my post in the "Banned" thread, here's a link:

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showth...3331#post83329

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

seteca
 

OK fair enough and I agree, just that I assume it would have to be PROOVED that they were "blatantly being unfair (etc.)" and I thought if they didn't word something right then that might be the way to "nail 'em" on that. :)

I did see your other thread, thanks for that, I didn't know that so that looks good that things may get settled in some way so I hope you all get what you should, I'll keep my eye on these threads to see what happens. :)

John

Ok Marty....I'll give you what I know or have heard and seen.

#2)cost $59.95 and now up to $79.95 (there was some kind of special deal for AOL members who got it $20 cheaper at some point early on)
#4)worse seats were available to clubmembers than those in the venue presales AND those of the general public. This was confirmed by many who saw better seats pop up for the other sales than their fanclub sales
#8)UNTRUE...I personally and NOT a VIP or season ticket holder. I was able to purchase two great floor seats in Philly on the day of the venue presale just by reading the password in a post here on the Ledge. My tickets are currently in hand and ready to be used at the show. ANYBODY and their brother could have bought tickets from the venue presale.
#9)a lie...If that was so we would not have been offered the same bad seats in the back over and over again. When the public ticket sales went up over the weekend better seats were offered than the supposed "rollover into the rest of the seats"
#10)"slow rollout" means that Ticketmaster or tickets.com somehow were totally unaware that it was time to put the "special fanclub" seats on sale. Therefore they were considered "rolled out slowly to the members".
#11)"top selldown" means the seats in a venue that would traditionally be the last ones sold or the ones that people would throw back over and over if given the chance are the ones sold first. An illusion is created among those who are more apt to purchase at all costs (those online first, in line at counters first and on the phone first to buy tickets) that this is all that is left and that the house is selling out quickly. Thus an easy sale of a bad ticket and later the good seats can go on sale and will sell anyway due to their high quality. A few good seats are thrown into the mix of a "top selldown" top create an illusion of a quick sellout.
#13)Sure will...after you read about it on the Ledge or Nicksfix first
#14)Unknown...Stevie has apparently answered some questions posed to her by fanclub members in the members only area, but Lindsey and John have not as of this date
#15)No discount on anything and no offer of anything other than the new CD which is available to anybody who visits the site
#16)yes and no..predominately no
#17)you may email but there are no fans currently reporting any email responses to questions. There are only a select few "helpful hands" who are in direct contact with the Knight who speak for him on occasion
#18)no refunds at this time...they are "working on something to make it up to us"
#19)venue presales are supposedly for VIPs and season ticketholders and are accessible by anyone with a password...that word was "dreams" for the first round of sales and anyone could use it and purchase some really good seats.
#21)you must contact Ticketmaster and try to get them to help you..if not, you were instructed to call the fanclub and leave a message for a return call
#22)you cannot jump the gun as Ticketmaster does not open up the ability to purchase tickets until the sale time starts (which ended up being much earlier than people were told....however, TM was publishing the times 48 hours in advance. The members were told that Ticketmaster was wrong, but it didn't matter)
#24)Yes....dates were given to us repeatedly although not lately
#25)nothing publicly known only that we are told they had something in place to stop it
#28)anyone can access Micks message board and site...all you have to do is register for free
#29)no special merchandise at this time
#30)open to everyone
#32)cost of membership is supposed to be $79.95 next year....LOL like anyone will renew! LOL!
#33)maybe...who knows
#35)nothing special planned at this time, although they did float the idea of paying $1000 for a special "meet and greet with the band" which would not surprise me to find that "the band" would end up being John and some of the backup singers

Thank you mbr33-- I'm going to pick this up again tomorrow night. Hopefully more people will work on this and add more and more details and questions in the meantime. I do have a question though-- actually on your first answer. Wasn't the price $59.95 for everyone initially? Any idea when it was raised to $79.95 (which I see it is now)?

Thank you. My goal again with this is to post legitimate questions and answer them as best we can in an objective manner to help clarify the whole situation.

- Marty

Hi Marty,

It was $59.95 for everyone initially, but there was some reports of a discount for AOL members in the early days. I am almost positive of this because people were ranting about it on Micks board. I do not have AOL, so perhaps someone who does may be able to fill us in on how that worked?

I joined on 3/4/03 for $59.95 and read that the price went up to $79.95 in the week prior to the first presale. It seems like I was one of the last to get the "special deal" LOL!

Isn't it obvious to everyone that if nothing was wrong, illegal, unethical, or whatever, with the fan club that Knight wouldn't be in a frenzy to delete everything negative related to that issue? From what I've heard he's deleting all the negative posts about the sale. He's banned people from the site who spoke out and tried to get direct answers to questions. This is something he's done all along even before the pre-sales when people tried to pin him down to specifics. People tried to find out how many memberships were sold. He wouldn't answer that. People asked him to specify where the fan block of seats were located. He tried to skirt this one but he did post messages that not only restated the best 20% line, he discouraged people from buying tickets in the venue pre-sales. First he said there are NO TICKET SALES happening on the dates mentioned for Venue Pre-sales. A day or two later he deleted that post and changed it to Venue Pre-sales would not affect the fan club block of tickets. He discouraged people from buying tickets at those sales. He also insisted that there would be a "roll over" to the best public seats left if the fan club seats sold out. This never happend. Many people posted that they were never offered anything but the worst areas of the floor and second level lodge seats during the pre-sale, while others said they got much better seats waiting for the public sale the next day. What happened to the "roll over?" Most of the messages and threads that verify this information have been deleted from Mick's board. Before I was banned (why I don't know?) I searched Knights past posts and noticed he deleted many of his own messages relating to the fan club. I say again, if nothing's wrong, why is he reacting this way?

He also posted on his "Knightly News" board every night leading up to the sale and emailed members multiple times in the days before the sale. He must have known what was coming and that they could not live up to the expectations of the presale because many of his threads were deleted the night before the sale.
He also posted that he would not be able to post as often over the next few days as the presale would "keep them all busy for a few days". I wonder what he would have had to do during the presales that would have kept him so busy?

Misleading statements
 

Since I am now banned (I think for writing and asking for a refund) I'm not sure what's still posted. I do know there were dozens of messages deleted the day of and after the pre-sale. How many people remember the post made by the Knight about the special edition cd that said IT DOES NOT EXIST! Is that one still there? He also posted in response to my thread about the venue pre-sales that NO SALES WERE TAKING PLACE on the days I mentioned about venue sales. That one came down in a hurry and was replaced by the one that said the Venue Sales would not affect our fan block of seats. What does that mean...not affect? It can mean anything he wants it to mean like the slipping in of the word "generally" in every post hyping the fan club seats as best 20% and Rows 1-30. To me generally means more than not. I took a poll at Mick's site which asked who was happy with the pre-sale. The results showed that less than 10%, only 4 out of 60 people who replied were happy. Is that thread even there anymore? It's probably been deleted. I know as soon as the results were posted the fan club sent out emails asking people to reply with good comments if they got good fan club seats. I guess he doesn't believe his own board. As far as what was said, even the language still showing on the fan club sign up page is misleading. It implies that you get better seats than the general public and people know that's not what happened. Fan club members were offered only the worst seats on the floor the majority of the time. To me, the disclaimer doesn't "generally" hold water.

Yes, there were psots to the effect of AOL'ers getting a $20 discount but it was never addressed offficialy. It wouldn't surprise me if the posts or entire thread were deleted.

What I'm wondering now is, when we received the email about the next presale it said they would be changing our passwords. I haven't received anything further. So tomorrow, if I decide to give it another shot with the ticket roulette, is my password gonna work? Or does asking for a refund and getting no response invalidate my membership? I have a feeling the sh*t is going to hit the fan all over again tomorrow. :nod:

misleading statements
 

Maybe somebody could explain this contradiction? These are direct quotes from a post by the Knight made on the day of the first fan club pre-sale. In one instance he is trying to justify the scarcity of good seats for anybody we know of by saying that the fan club has an extrememly large number of members we don't know anything about...

"Please note that the number of this board's members who are also Fan Club members is very small. There are thousands of fans who are Club members and have never been to this board."


Later in the same message he says the "value" of the fan club membership is in the scarcity of competition for fan club seats...

"The Fan Club value regarding tickets is that you're choosing with a very small group compared to the public onsale. While you may not get the seats you hoped for, the seats you get now should be better than what you would get if you went to the public onsale."

Which is it? Is the value of the membership based on the fact that you have a small group of fan club members, or is the reason you got lousy seats becasue there are thousands of fan club members competing for a handful of seats? It can't be both.