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-   -   Abortion (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=54787)

gssmith 12-19-2014 04:11 PM
Abortion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaContestant (Post 1156303)
Stevie has talked about how there just wasn't time for anything else other than Fleetwood Mac. No time for a steady relationship, let alone a child. She was young, in her prime, partying, travelling, living the dream and seeing the world. Even though women every day manage to walk both sides of the line, Stevie didn't feel it was the right thing to do, *for her*, to bring a child into her crazy jet-fueled world of drugs, sex and rock and roll. From an outsider's point of view, it may seem a little bit selfish, but I honestly think it would have been a terrible thing if she'd had children in those days. Maybe it would have calmed her, maybe there would have been no Betty Ford, no Klonopin, no breakup of Fleetwood Mac after Tango - but maybe it would have been worse.

This brings me to Hard Advice from 24 Karat Gold. There has been some discussion on who the lyrics are about, other than Tom Petty filling the role of the 'best friend'. To me, the lyrics are not about a person, but about a life lived; about overcoming all the grief and regret and pain from *all* the choices she made and the failures she had experienced. It was 1995, before The Dance, and her life was in a slump despite coming out of Klonopin detox. She had to face, finally, all the hard memories and pain she had been covering up with drugs and escapism; after all those years of self-medicating with cocaine and then Klonopin, the reality of her choices was there in the daylight, plain to see. She was sober, finally, really for the first time since the mid-70's, and it was time to get over all of her past mistakes and decisions that led her to where she was at that moment. There was no husband, there was no Lindsey, there was no child, there was no Fleetwood Mac - there wasn't even a public interest in her career. Street Angel was a flop. No more medicating, no more hiding. It's time to get over it - this pain's gone on too long. Don't buy that doll. Come in out of the darkness, for real this time. And until you do, you're going nowhere.

And she did! :nod:
Oh nice! Except I think Betty ford would have come a lot sooner or it would have been selfish to have brought a child into the world. I rarely think abortions are the wrong way to go, even though I tend to go with the republicans, I have a very liberal out look on most social issues.

"Breath easy. Don't commit a crime"

PenguinHead 12-20-2014 04:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by studyinscarlet (Post 1156348)
And I'm sorry she chose to kill the baby. I think she must have regrets about that deep down. Life with drugs is no life.

Ps. I'm very pro-life. I love Stevie.
I'm pro-reason. I have had a wonderful life with and without drugs or babies! I'm sorry that you chose to phrase it as "She chose to kill the baby." She stopped a very early pregnancy. I don't believe she carries a heavy regret about it. It was a responsible decision which has allowed her to live her life on her own terms. Her artistic instincts are far more stronger than her mothering instincts. Stevie has a very unconventional spirit.

History shows that humans have always sought altered states of consciousness. Not everyone who has used or is using recreational drugs are doomed. It depends on the drugs, and the psychology of the individual. In years past I used cocaine and took a few trips on acid, mescaline and mushrooms in varying degrees. It was fun and experimental. I'm fond of those experiences and have no regrets. I still smoke pot , yet drastically less frequently in the last few years, but still drink red wine and the occasional cocktail. I have a very healthy lifestyle; I'm a vegan, I run, bike, meditate, do yoga and work out. You can have a good time with drugs (responsible usage of alcohol/pot). You can also have a good time without it, but why take chances? lol

Stevie, no doubt, had a good time for a while until cocaine , which is a notoriously addictive substance, became an addiction. Some of the other members were complicit in drug use, yet they all didn't have to go to rehab. I admire her awareness that her dependency got out of hand and that it was comprising her life, so she took responsibility to fix it ( You can fix this!).

olive 12-20-2014 03:17 PM
just out of curiosity

Would y'all be this supportive if you had a neighbor /co-worker / friend who was a drug addict knowing had sex with someone else's husband and used abortion as a form of birth control ?

michelej1 12-20-2014 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by olive (Post 1156387)

Would y'all be this supportive if you had a neighbor /co-worker / friend who was a drug addict knowing had sex with someone else's husband and used abortion as a form of birth control ?
Yes. I would be more supportive in that case, because the drug addict would be less equipped to take care of the baby than a financially secure Stevie would have been. Our society does not provide proper support, health or education services to the children of the poor or troubled and no child should be born into a world where they will suffer.

The fact that the baby was the result of sex with someone else's husband would be irrelevant to me. In fact, when you offer reasons that an innocent infant would be ostracized, stigmatized, labeled, name-called and shunned for someone else's mistake, it does not make me anti-abortion.

Michele

SisterNightroad 12-20-2014 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by olive (Post 1156387)
just out of curiosity

Would y'all be this supportive if you had a neighbor /co-worker / friend who was a drug addict knowing had sex with someone else's husband and used abortion as a form of birth control ?
I don't think you should say that she used abortion as form of birth control, because it isn't a contraceptive method and defining it as such is misleading and has a negative influence.
Beside that, you don't know what kind of birth control method she used, maybe as the majority of people she used the natural method but it didn't work like many times happens. This was especially true for the seventies before the spreading of AIDS.

gssmith 12-20-2014 11:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by olive (Post 1156387)
just out of curiosity

Would y'all be this supportive if you had a neighbor /co-worker / friend who was a drug addict knowing had sex with someone else's husband and used abortion as a form of birth control ?
Yes, I would almost do the abortion my self.

PenguinHead 12-22-2014 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsyhelena (Post 1156422)
The only person who has full knowledge of all the reasons behind Stevie's decisions regarding her abortion(s?) is Stevie herself, and that's okay. Her body, her choice (which I'm sure was a difficult choice for her to make).
Thank you for being a voice of reason.

Who the hell is anyone to moralize about her past and the choices she made? The circumstances and intimate details surrounding her personal life are a matter of privacy It's really none of our business to analyze and make judgement calls about the what ifs and should haves. There is an incessant obsession and reference about sex and drugs, with a seemingly naive perspective that isn't well informed or nuanced about either subject.

Though I feel no topic should be off limits, this inquisition was ill-conceived and lacks sensitivity. It pushed the hot button on a particularly incendiary subject. It was bound to set off a lot of polarizing theories and unnecessary pandering, far-fetched assessments.

Jondalar 12-22-2014 12:32 AM
The "the right to lifers" always make me sick because I think they are about as deep as a raindrop.

PenguinHead 12-22-2014 01:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jondalar (Post 1156509)
The "the right to lifers" always make me sick because I think they are about as deep as a raindrop.
So poetic;)

gldstwmn 12-22-2014 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by olive (Post 1156387)
just out of curiosity

Would y'all be this supportive if you had a neighbor /co-worker / friend who was a drug addict knowing had sex with someone else's husband and used abortion as a form of birth control ?
It's none of my business.

Danigirl 12-22-2014 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gldstwmn (Post 1156541)
It's none of my business.
Exactly. Nuff said.

olive 12-22-2014 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gldstwmn (Post 1156541)
It's none of my business.
if only more people did that

Feather Blade 12-23-2014 01:22 PM
Sigh, I know I am going to regret getting involved in this argument, but how about a different viewpoint for once if we are so supportive of them all. The original poster merely asked what we thought was going on in Stevie's life at the time which would cause her to take the course of action she did. Cue the immediate vehement "her body her choice!" answer. Yes, it was her body, but I am tired of everyone pretending that making that choice isn't denying a lifetime's worth of choices to another human being who could have lived and loved and gifted the world with their own special qualities. If you have been in that situation, I know I haven't walked in your shoes, but can I humbly ask that we consider taking 9 tiny months of our general allotment of 912 of them over the average lifespan, to let another human being come into this world to be gifted to adoptive parents who are aching to give that little one a family and a home. There ARE other alternatives. (and to the person who said that everyone who wasn't supportive of killing children was about as deep as a raindrop, I hope I've shown more depth than that. If you still think not, then I'm sorry, but I'll "choose" to stick to my principles.)

Jondalar 12-24-2014 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feather Blade (Post 1156618)
Sigh, I know I am going to regret getting involved in this argument, but how about a different viewpoint for once if we are so supportive of them all. The original poster merely asked what we thought was going on in Stevie's life at the time which would cause her to take the course of action she did. Cue the immediate vehement "her body her choice!" answer. Yes, it was her body, but I am tired of everyone pretending that making that choice isn't denying a lifetime's worth of choices to another human being who could have lived and loved and gifted the world with their own special qualities. If you have been in that situation, I know I haven't walked in your shoes, but can I humbly ask that we consider taking 9 tiny months of our general allotment of 912 of them over the average lifespan, to let another human being come into this world to be gifted to adoptive parents who are aching to give that little one a family and a home. There ARE other alternatives. (and to the person who said that everyone who wasn't supportive of killing children was about as deep as a raindrop, I hope I've shown more depth than that. If you still think not, then I'm sorry, but I'll "choose" to stick to my principles.)
"Killing Children" - not a child yet, she made a preemptive move; she didn't need the alternatives.

lovethemac1 12-24-2014 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinHead (Post 1156508)
Thank you for being a voice of reason.

Who the hell is anyone to moralize about her past and the choices she made? The circumstances and intimate details surrounding her personal life are a matter of privacy It's really none of our business to analyze and make judgement calls about the what ifs and should haves. There is an incessant obsession and reference about sex and drugs, with a seemingly naive perspective that isn't well informed or nuanced about either subject.

Though I feel no topic should be off limits, this inquisition was ill-conceived and lacks sensitivity. It pushed the hot button on a particularly incendiary subject. It was bound to set off a lot of polarizing theories and unnecessary pandering, far-fetched assessments.
Here, here.


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