Reminisce of Salem Massachusetts ......
 

....... 1692




http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...riage/3625275/

Methodist jury convicts Pa. pastor for gay wedding


SPRING CITY, Pa. (AP) — A United Methodist pastor was convicted Monday of breaking church law by officiating his son's same-sex wedding and could be defrocked after a high-profile trial that has rekindled debate over the denomination's policy on gay marriage.

The Methodist church put the Rev. Frank Schaefer on trial in southeastern Pennsylvania, accusing him of breaking his pastoral vows by presiding over the 2007 ceremony in Massachusetts.

The 13-member jury convicted Schaefer on two charges: That he officiated a gay wedding, and that he showed "disobedience to the order and discipline of the United Methodist Church."

The jury will reconvene Tuesday morning for the penalty phase, where Schaefer faces punishment ranging from a reprimand to losing his ministerial credentials.

"Obviously I'm very saddened. What we're hoping for tomorrow is a light sentence," said Schaefer's son, Tim Schaefer, 29, whose wedding led to the charges.

Testifying in his defense, the 51-year-old pastor said he decided to break church rules out of love for his son. He said he might have lost what he called his "ritual purity" by disobeying the Methodist Book of Discipline, but that he felt he was obeying God's command to minister to everyone.

"I love the United Methodist Church. I've been a minister for almost 20 years and there are so many good things about the United Methodist Church except for that one rule," said Schaefer, of Lebanon.

Schaefer, who pleaded not guilty to the charges, could have avoided the trial if he had agreed to never again perform a same-gender wedding, but he declined because three of his four children are gay.

The nation's largest mainline Protestant denomination accepts gay and lesbian members, but it rejects the practice of homosexuality as "incompatible with Christian teaching."

The church's lawyer, the Rev. Christopher Fisher, told the jury that Schaefer clearly violated the Book of Discipline. He said the complainant, Jon Boger — a member of Schaefer's congregation — was dismayed and shocked when he learned this year about the ceremony.

Fisher used his closing argument to condemn homosexuality as immoral and said Schaefer had no right to break a Methodist law that bans pastors from performing same-sex marriages just because he disagreed with church teaching. He told jurors they were duty-bound to convict.

"You'll give an account for that at the last day, as we all will," he told the jury, to audible gasps from spectators.

Dozens of Schaefer's supporters stood in silent protest as Fisher spoke, then linked hands and sang "We Shall Overcome" after the jury left to begin deliberating.

Boger, the church's sole witness, testified Monday that he felt betrayed when he found out that Schaefer, who had baptized his children and buried his grandparents, had presided over a gay wedding.

"When pastors take the law of the church in their own hand ... it undermines their own credibility as a leader and also undermines the integrity of the church as a whole," Boger said.

"It's his son. He loves his son. In a way I felt bad for him. But he's also shown no remorse or repentance, nor has he apologized to anyone."

When Schaefer chose to hide the marriage from the congregation, Boger said, "It was a lie and a broken covenant."

But Schaefer testified he had informed his superiors of his part in the marriage. He said he kept it from his conservative church's congregation because it would be divisive.

"I did not want to make this a protest about the doctrine of the church. I wasn't trying to be an advocate," Schaefer said. "I just wanted this to be a beautiful family affair, and it was that."

Schaefer faced no discipline until April — less than a month before the church's six-year statute of limitations was set to expire — when Boger filed a complaint.

Schaefer's son came out to his parents at age 17, revealing he had contemplated suicide over his struggle with sexual identity and the church's stance on homosexuality.

"He had heard messages that were hateful from the church, from the culture around him, that told him you're not normal, you're not valid, you're a freak," Schaefer testified.

The pastor said he and his wife told their son he was a "beloved child of God."

Years later, Tim Schaefer asked his father to marry him.

"To say no to his request would have negated all the affirmations I gave him over the years," he said.

Interesting story accept for this one sentence. The writer of the story should be flogged for this sentence.:lol:

I said it before on the Yahoo need page article, and I'll say it again.

Any religion that expects you to choose something that you physically can not see nor have a verbal 2 way conversation with, over your own flesh and blood is messed up.

Go pastor! You did the right thing.

OMG, it's freakin' 2013, why does this still go on? Will the human race ever actually have that intelligence that it brags about so much???? God! (And I mean that totally as an expression with no meaning whatsoever behind it, and I am not taking anyone's name in vain, since as you can see, I did not write the name, I wrote the title.)

It's always seemed to me that a creator however you want to imagine one if nothing else created a lot of variety. Who are we to judge which varieties of the creation are good? Basically variety has been proven a strength throughout or observable history. If someone wants to say that homosexuality is wrong for them that is as far as they can carry the truth. It is silly to say what is true for you is true for everyone. If that were the case then yams and parsnips would be banished because I can't understand how anyone can like them.

There is a culture war thing going on in the U.S. that gets very strident and extreme at times. As we finally say same-sex marriages 'allowed' it is causing some people issues we need to respect and hopefully reason with. In Canada I sat down with some very extremist religious groups and I think managed to alleviate many of their concerns not by attacking them back but by basically the sort of thing I just wrote above. Respecting that what they are saying is true for themselves but you cannot expect everyone to be like you, and what a boring and weak world that would be! It is to me a sin to impose yourself upon others according to the bible I grew up with.

As for the invisible man nobody can prove to have met, I tend to respect that even if there is nobody there the fact that so many believe there is has had a real effect on our history and likely will in the future. In other words belief in God is not going away anytime soon so deal with it? You can no more wish them away than they can wish you away? There is no excuse for being rotten to other people, and if there is a good God surely he would agree. If there is a violent God full of righteous anger well I'd rather not exist and you can put me in with the other failing 'sinners' then. A voice or words on paper telling me to hate and judge and reject is not my idea of anyone worth listening to.

I can't say there is or isn't. Further along we might know more about it and understand why. This life isn't permanent but everything good and true that ever was will always have been.

He went against the laws of his church. The right thing to do would have been to find a church which didn't have these laws.

So I guess before the days of integration & the Civil Rights Act, blacks should have moved to another country to attain equal treatment?

I suppose before the 19th Amendment, women should have just sat idley by, or moved to another country that allowed them to vote?

I'm sorry, but your train of thought just doesn't hold water. I just don't get why some Christians are so fixated on the whole gay thing. It just seems like an obscure item to get so caught up on. After all, people aren't being beaten & imprisoned in Russia for mixing wool & cotton clothing. Jim Bakker wasn't stoned to death for cheating on Tammy Faye. Everyone conveniently ignores that football is apparently a sin, because it's touching the flesh of a dead pig. Why aren't Christians marching to shut down the unholy Red Lobster chain because they serve the sinful shellfish? Homosexuality isn't one of the 7 Deadly Sins, nor is it mentioned in the 10 Commandments. Christians who make it their lives missions to counter an act of love are ridiculously off base.

You said what I couldn't find the right words for.

well put .if Pastor Bakker were to have been stoned an affair should it have been for the one with Jessica Hahn or CBN Staffer David Taggart.

And why are you so fixated in insisting a church break its laws when the marriage could have taken place in another church where such a marriage would have been acceptable? One church chooses not to marry gay couples, whereas another church will.

their outdated ,and hate based

And, yet, it was the Democrats who denied God three times during their national convention.

I assume they were being considerate and not pushing it on us , who don't believe in ,and who also understand religion has no place in government

Because civil rights & righting wrongs has to start somewhere. Too many churches & individuals use doctrine as a blanket for their bigotry. And once again, we are back to churches & Christians picking & chosing what they believe & persecute. Why hasn't this Methodist church not gone after sinful shellfish eaters, aboninable football players, immoral brides who marry in a mixture of cotton & wool, why aren't they stoning cheating spouses, etc? WHY is the gay thing such a fixation, while scores of other sins are swept under the rug as outdated relics? I just will never, ever get it.

Amen! (sorry I don't know another word to use)

Religion and government do not mix welln the Spanish Inquisition, The Crusades etc.