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-   -   DR documentary makers talk S & L (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=59539)

elle 05-10-2022 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires (Post 1274464)
thanks for tracking that down, elle. Credit should indeed be given where it is due!

it's also longer than 5 mins.

bombaysaffires 05-10-2022 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elle (Post 1274465)
it's also longer than 5 mins.

Yes, I was going to post that it runs almost half an hour. :thumbsup:

In the full version, they talk about John-- him being the quietest one, not rude or un-involved, just not flashy and talky. They were concerned about making sure he was adequately represented in the film.

500+ hours of footage. Lindsey had stopped by their editing place a few times and saw some bits and critiqued their editing.:shocked: They finally got it down to over 2 hrs, and showed it to Lindsey by himself first, and were really nervous about how he would respond to things they captured, his and Stevie's bickering, or things Mick had said... and when it ended, there was a long silence, and they were afraid to look at him... and finally he said "Well, I think it's effing brilliant."

After the rest of the band saw it they didn't change too much; Mick was fine with it, John didn't care what they included, Stevie liked it but asked for some small changes which they made (they don't say what).

Host asks them about their reaction to Lindsey's firing. Both said "not surprised in the slightest". One of them said "it sounded like just another day at the office for them." They are hoping the 5 will get back together one more time and believe it will happen post Covid.

BigAl84 05-11-2022 07:57 AM

I think their view of the project has softened as more time has passed. Quite a while ago, 7-10 years ago folks had asked them on facebook about the project and they seemed to indicate that there was a lot of drama left on the cutting room floor. I'm assuming that a lot of Stevie's edits were most likely confrontations or drama that she felt didn't portray her the way she would like.

There are at least two known conflicts that were not shown:
1. "Of course you don't like it, I wrote it"
2. The sequencing of the album while Stevie was on vacation.

They're both smart enough to make sure they don't say anything to get on Irving's radar.

A directors cut/box set release for the 20th Anniversary of Say You Will would be amazing, but that will never happen. Even if they left some of the drama out but included more footage of them working on Come, Murrow, Smile At You etc would be cool to see.

As others have said, it is shocking how young they appear at 55 compared to 73.

DownOnRodeo 05-11-2022 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl84 (Post 1274470)
A directors cut/box set release for the 20th Anniversary of Say You Will would be amazing, but that will never happen. Even if they left some of the drama out but included more footage of them working on Come, Murrow, Smile At You etc would be cool to see.

I don't think there would be footage of recording Come or Murrow, as they were recorded earlier in the 90s as a separate project and used on SYW pretty much as is. But I was thinking the same thing, because those earlier recorded Lindsey contributions are some of my favorite tracks on SYW.

The album is such a mish-mash of content.
It would have been fun if they'd split the tracks over two albums, something like this:

Album 1 (edgier/political)

1 "Red Rover" Buckingham 3:58
2 "Illume (9-11)" Stevie Nicks 4:51
3 "Murrow Turning Over in His Grave" Buckingham 4:12
4 "Peacekeeper" Buckingham 4:11
5 "Smile at You" Nicks 4:33
6 "What's the World Coming To?" Buckingham, Raymond 3:48
7 "Everybody Finds Out" Nicks, Nowels 4:29
8 "Come" Buckingham, Heywood 5:59
9 "Running Through the Garden" Nicks, Kennedy, Nicholson 4:34
10 "Goodbye Baby" Nicks 3:52

Album 2 (easy listening)

1 "Destiny Rules" Nicks 4:26
2 "Bleed to Love Her" Buckingham 4:06
3 "Not Make Believe" Nicks 4:28
4 "Miranda" Buckingham 4:18
5 "Thrown Down" Nicks 4:02
6 "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" Dylan 4:11
7 "Say You Will" Nicks 3:49
8 "Steal Your Heart Away" Buckingham 3:33
9 "Silver Girl" Nicks 3:59
10 "Say Goodbye" Buckingham 3:26

jbrownsjr 05-11-2022 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elle (Post 1274455)
yeah your opinion is null and void mister :p :angel:

he was at his musical peak at the time. I will never ever get over that fact that the amazing most fantastic album ever by a FM member that was gonna be original Gift of Screws got watered down and drawn in the mess that's Say You Will. it's such a shame.


i did think it was interesting that she already then didn't want to join and they were thinking will she or won't she. guess nothing really changed since, just became a downward spiral. even then she was focused on solely her name and how to become a legend in capital letters that she now 20 years later finally seems to have accomplished, while the rest of them were all band first.

We agree! SYW is a mess. And we also agree that LB tried to make this a piece of art with zero cooperation (or false cooperation) from any of them. I'm humming the great WTWCT, I Don't Mind. and Peacekeeper as we speak. ;) (all at once!!)

Also, I too wish this cutting edge music would have been on GOS. I disagree that he was peaking with cutting edge material.

Out of The Cradle was the peak for my "voided" opinion.
He thinks playing to a machine is cutting edge. Or, having someone push buttons for samples (on stage) of his guitar licks. Christine pretending to play keys is the new cutting edge. Stevie screeching into a mic on Outside the Rain last weekend is also cutting edge. Maybe it is me. :shocked:

But most importantly, LOVE YOU ELLE!! (and that wasn't sarcasm)

Villavic 05-11-2022 09:57 AM

I never read about whose idea was it, but after all his books, the MF story DVD, etc., I always thought DR was Mick's idea.

BigAl84 05-11-2022 10:10 AM

Even though a lot of Lindsey's material was essentially "In the can" I have a hard time believing that there wasn't some level of adjustments/tweaking that took place in 2002.

20 years later and I'm still itching to hear whatever that awesome uptempo dobro track that Lindsey and Mick were jamming on at the beginning of the documentary.

BigAl84 05-11-2022 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DownOnRodeo (Post 1274472)
I don't think there would be footage of recording Come or Murrow, as they were recorded earlier in the 90s as a separate project and used on SYW pretty much as is. But I was thinking the same thing, because those earlier recorded Lindsey contributions are some of my favorite tracks on SYW.

The album is such a mish-mash of content.
It would have been fun if they'd split the tracks over two albums, something like this:

Album 1 (edgier/political)

1 "Red Rover" Buckingham 3:58
2 "Illume (9-11)" Stevie Nicks 4:51
3 "Murrow Turning Over in His Grave" Buckingham 4:12
4 "Peacekeeper" Buckingham 4:11
5 "Smile at You" Nicks 4:33
6 "What's the World Coming To?" Buckingham, Raymond 3:48
7 "Everybody Finds Out" Nicks, Nowels 4:29
8 "Come" Buckingham, Heywood 5:59
9 "Running Through the Garden" Nicks, Kennedy, Nicholson 4:34
10 "Goodbye Baby" Nicks 3:52

Album 2 (easy listening)

1 "Destiny Rules" Nicks 4:26
2 "Bleed to Love Her" Buckingham 4:06
3 "Not Make Believe" Nicks 4:28
4 "Miranda" Buckingham 4:18
5 "Thrown Down" Nicks 4:02
6 "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" Dylan 4:11
7 "Say You Will" Nicks 3:49
8 "Steal Your Heart Away" Buckingham 3:33
9 "Silver Girl" Nicks 3:59
10 "Say Goodbye" Buckingham 3:26

What SYW lacked that helped Tusk work as a really long album was a stronger mix of slower-paced songs. SYW has a lot of uptempo, aggressive material. Goodbye Baby, Say Goodbye, and Silver Girl are the only ballads on the album. I think the 18 tracks are harder to digest because of this, which is why it already seems more palatable as two albums with ten tracks each. Love Minus Zeo probably would of been a good inclusion to balance things out.

Not Make Believe always felt unfinished to me and definitely not one of Stevie's stronger tracks. It's still great that it was released as a bonus track. My own preference would be to swap it out with a different Stevie track.

jbrownsjr 05-11-2022 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl84 (Post 1274476)
Even though a lot of Lindsey's material was essentially "In the can" I have a hard time believing that there wasn't some level of adjustments/tweaking that took place in 2002.

20 years later and I'm still itching to hear whatever that awesome uptempo dobro track that Lindsey and Mick were jamming on at the beginning of the documentary.

Yes!!!!! :thumbsup:

elle 05-11-2022 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr (Post 1274474)
I'm humming the great WTWCT, I Don't Mind. and Peacekeeper as we speak. ;) (all at once!!)

Also, I too wish this cutting edge music would have been on GOS. I disagree that he was peaking with cutting edge material.

Out of The Cradle was the peak for my "voided" opinion.
He thinks playing to a machine is cutting edge. Or, having someone push buttons for samples (on stage) of his guitar licks. Christine pretending to play keys is the new cutting edge. Stevie screeching into a mic on Outside the Rain last weekend is also cutting edge. Maybe it is me. :shocked:

But most importantly, LOVE YOU ELLE!! (and that wasn't sarcasm)

all my love right back to you! we just have a completely different taste in music :nod:

anyway - i hate WTWCT from SYW and I Don't Mind from Lindsey Buckingham is the song that has everything i dislike about Lindsey's music making (while song like On The Wrong Side has everything i love about Lindsey's music making!).

i don't think OOTC is edgy. i think Come / Murrow / Red Rover were different and interesting, and definitely edgier than general middle of the road soft rock Mac music. i don't see any of the Mac members music as edgy, but LB is more towards that end in some periods than other writers. and i am not saying 90s / original Gift of Screws period is Lindsey's "edgiest" period. i'm saying that he was at his creative peak at the time.

Steal Your Heart Away and Bleed to Love Her are not edgy or up-tempo songs.

elle 05-11-2022 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl84 (Post 1274476)
Even though a lot of Lindsey's material was essentially "In the can" I have a hard time believing that there wasn't some level of adjustments/tweaking that took place in 2002.

20 years later and I'm still itching to hear whatever that awesome uptempo dobro track that Lindsey and Mick were jamming on at the beginning of the documentary.

wait, wasn't the opening track on DR actual Destiny Rules guitar parts?

i do love that guitar, and also their jamming at the opening of the doc.

BigAl84 05-11-2022 10:38 AM

As I'm thinking about SYW more...perhaps what I crave the most when listening to it is simplicity. A reprieve. That touch of simplicity really only occurs during Say Goodbye and Goodbye Baby.

UnwindedDreams 05-11-2022 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl84 (Post 1274477)
Not Make Believe always felt unfinished to me and definitely not one of Stevie's stronger tracks. It's still great that it was released as a bonus track. My own preference would be to swap it out with a different Stevie track.

Curious about your unfinished feeling. Is it because there aren't many verses? I think the best part of that song is John.

HomerMcvie 05-11-2022 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl84 (Post 1274476)
Even though a lot of Lindsey's material was essentially "In the can" I have a hard time believing that there wasn't some level of adjustments/tweaking that took place in 2002.

20 years later and I'm still itching to hear whatever that awesome uptempo dobro track that Lindsey and Mick were jamming on at the beginning of the documentary.

Agreed. I love the sound of that song, and that guitar. I'd love to know if it ever became a finished song. I'm pretty sure this is the model of guitar.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12520500236...ampid%3APL_CLK

Macfan4life 05-11-2022 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl84 (Post 1274477)
What SYW lacked that helped Tusk work as a really long album was a stronger mix of slower-paced songs. SYW has a lot of uptempo, aggressive material. Goodbye Baby, Say Goodbye, and Silver Girl are the only ballads on the album. I think the 18 tracks are harder to digest because of this, which is why it already seems more palatable as two albums with ten tracks each. Love Minus Zeo probably would of been a good inclusion to balance things out.

Not Make Believe always felt unfinished to me and definitely not one of Stevie's stronger tracks. It's still great that it was released as a bonus track. My own preference would be to swap it out with a different Stevie track.

I agree with what you write but for opposite reasons. I like the uptempo SYW songs. SYW is pure Lindsey and I dont understand the hate the album gets on this board. Its nothing short of brilliant. There is so much creativity on this album it blows me away. You get raw oddities like Illume and tremendous rockers like Everybody Finds Out. The Mac has never jammed like that before. You also get delicious pop songs like Thrown Down and a very good Running Through The Garden. IMHO people dont like it because it was not commercially successful. One thing I noticed about this board is the more successful the album is commercially, the more love it gets here. Of course Christine is missing and that would have improved the album. But for the love of God, we all bitch about wanting new music and creative stuff. SYW was that answer yet people hate it, I dont get it. We all wanted them to dive deep into creating creative music without the pressure of pop charts and SYW was that answer. The same people who praise Tusk for its coldness and aloofness criticize SYW for its coldness :lol:


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