DR documentary makers talk S & L
 

The two guys who filmed the Destiny Rules documentary talk about what that experience was like:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CdXG_l4Dckl/

According to them it was Lindsey's idea to film the process; they didn't know if Stevie would even participate in recording; they were "like an old married couple" but their tiffs never got particularly big or bad. It's a short audio, little over 5 mins.

I am so glad they filmed it. It does not seem like that long ago but when you watch it, it is a time capsule. The cell phones and cars are so old and they look so young. I loved watching the creative process of everyone involved. It was very Tusk like but maybe with a few more tiffs. Lindsey wanted to put all the creative songs on a double album and everyone punched back wanting only a 10 song commercial disc. I hate the part when Mick tells the camera something like Lindsey is mostly getting his way and if the album bombs and only sells 500k copies, hes going to really hurt. Guess what? The album only sold 500k copies. But that is another thing that makes you realize how old the album is. If an album today sold 500k copies, it would be considered a huge success LOL

"We shot like five hundred hours or some crazy amount of film."

The documentary inevitably hones in on the dramatic narratives (the double album thing, the track listing, the mastering).
There's so much footage of music/producing stuff that we don't get to see.

What would we do on this board without that Bob Dylan quote. Its given this board almost 20 years of mileage. For that reason alone, the movie was worth it.

Man what I wouldn’t give to watch some more of the unused tape. Especially those hidden night-vision-looking cameras. It was interesting watching SnL interacting alone (and seemingly forgetting the cameras) in the one clip where he’s going on about the double album and saying what this means to him and then dabbing at tears.

I also always wondered why they cut out whatever argument you see a glimpse of in the Access Hollywood thing where Stevie’s yelling in that very whiney voice “of course you hate it because I wrote it!” or something to that effect. I assume she’s talking about either naming the album SYW or naming the doc DR, but who knows. We never saw the context of that fight and I’d love to see it.

The one thing I remember is being more excited about the music in this doc. than what actuallY ended up on the album.

I also remember Lindsey trying so hard to keep the project together. He had a vision and did everything possible to try and get that vision out.

The rest of them didn't seem to care about anything but the commerce of it.
I see both sides of this. But, mostly thought LIndsey was treated a bit unfairly at times.

I however just don't think his music is anywhere near cutting edge on this vs. Go Insane album or even Tusk/Law and Order etc. The production also seemed a bit generic to me. This album was kind of a mess, in my opinion.

I also thought it was a lost opportunity for B/N to really collaborate. She's on a different planet with her career compared to where he is. He wants to create and she wants mgmt to maintain her superstar status. PERIOD

Yes I remember that. It also reminds me of another part that was cut from Stevie's VH1 Behind The Music. During the promos Paul Fishkin talked about "near overdoses while on the road." That really peaked my interest but it never appeared in the full segment. Stevie must have had final say.

Yep, so so so much material that would have made a great bonus outtakes extra disc or that they could put out as part of a re-release of it now. But alas..... getting the 5 to agree on much (really it's the 2) nowadays seems highly unlikely....

You do wonder if/when one of the 5 goes, and especially when either or both of the 2 ( S&L) go, whether then some of the unreleased stuff will come out....

Yep, one of the most honest bits....so of course it was cut.

But if you go back and look at pics from that time period, there are any number of pics of her out at events and whatnot where she's got 2 people, one on either side of her, basically holding her upright while trying to make it look like they aren't. Often one would be Lori.

yeah your opinion is null and void mister :p :angel:

he was at his musical peak at the time. I will never ever get over that fact that the amazing most fantastic album ever by a FM member that was gonna be original Gift of Screws got watered down and drawn in the mess that's Say You Will. it's such a shame.

i did think it was interesting that she already then didn't want to join and they were thinking will she or won't she. guess nothing really changed since, just became a downward spiral. even then she was focused on solely her name and how to become a legend in capital letters that she now 20 years later finally seems to have accomplished, while the rest of them were all band first.

You wouldn't say that to Jim Jarmusch!

It truly showed us(the way)what an egotistical gas bag $he is.

just now realized that the link is not to the original interview, and that insta post never credited where they ripped the audio from so here's the original podcast link:

Duvall Nation!Episode 56 is Live! Kyle Einhorn & Matt Baumann discuss the @fleetwoodmac documentary Destiny Rules.Stories of #lindseybuckingham #StevieNicks @LBuckingham @StevieNicks #FleetwoodMac #PodNation
Promo: @Infectious_Pod @KatieKinder1 @10ishPodhttps://t.co/hkTqpgpZZr pic.twitter.com/McSpAKNKzI

— The Derek Duvall Show (@derekduvallshow) May 9, 2022

Five hundred hours of footage of them recording an album.

All we got was one hour of Karen lounging around patting Yorkshire terriers, Mick undressing, Stevie being outsung by a fish, Lindsey haplessly pursuing a completely different project to what the rest are interested in, and John spluttering to get a word in edgewise.

thanks for tracking that down, elle. Credit should indeed be given where it is due!

it's also longer than 5 mins.

Yes, I was going to post that it runs almost half an hour. :thumbsup:

In the full version, they talk about John-- him being the quietest one, not rude or un-involved, just not flashy and talky. They were concerned about making sure he was adequately represented in the film.

500+ hours of footage. Lindsey had stopped by their editing place a few times and saw some bits and critiqued their editing.:shocked: They finally got it down to over 2 hrs, and showed it to Lindsey by himself first, and were really nervous about how he would respond to things they captured, his and Stevie's bickering, or things Mick had said... and when it ended, there was a long silence, and they were afraid to look at him... and finally he said "Well, I think it's effing brilliant."

After the rest of the band saw it they didn't change too much; Mick was fine with it, John didn't care what they included, Stevie liked it but asked for some small changes which they made (they don't say what).

Host asks them about their reaction to Lindsey's firing. Both said "not surprised in the slightest". One of them said "it sounded like just another day at the office for them." They are hoping the 5 will get back together one more time and believe it will happen post Covid.

I think their view of the project has softened as more time has passed. Quite a while ago, 7-10 years ago folks had asked them on facebook about the project and they seemed to indicate that there was a lot of drama left on the cutting room floor. I'm assuming that a lot of Stevie's edits were most likely confrontations or drama that she felt didn't portray her the way she would like.

There are at least two known conflicts that were not shown:
1. "Of course you don't like it, I wrote it"
2. The sequencing of the album while Stevie was on vacation.

They're both smart enough to make sure they don't say anything to get on Irving's radar.

A directors cut/box set release for the 20th Anniversary of Say You Will would be amazing, but that will never happen. Even if they left some of the drama out but included more footage of them working on Come, Murrow, Smile At You etc would be cool to see.

As others have said, it is shocking how young they appear at 55 compared to 73.

I don't think there would be footage of recording Come or Murrow, as they were recorded earlier in the 90s as a separate project and used on SYW pretty much as is. But I was thinking the same thing, because those earlier recorded Lindsey contributions are some of my favorite tracks on SYW.

The album is such a mish-mash of content.
It would have been fun if they'd split the tracks over two albums, something like this:

Album 1 (edgier/political)

1 "Red Rover" Buckingham 3:58
2 "Illume (9-11)" Stevie Nicks 4:51
3 "Murrow Turning Over in His Grave" Buckingham 4:12
4 "Peacekeeper" Buckingham 4:11
5 "Smile at You" Nicks 4:33
6 "What's the World Coming To?" Buckingham, Raymond 3:48
7 "Everybody Finds Out" Nicks, Nowels 4:29
8 "Come" Buckingham, Heywood 5:59
9 "Running Through the Garden" Nicks, Kennedy, Nicholson 4:34
10 "Goodbye Baby" Nicks 3:52

Album 2 (easy listening)

1 "Destiny Rules" Nicks 4:26
2 "Bleed to Love Her" Buckingham 4:06
3 "Not Make Believe" Nicks 4:28
4 "Miranda" Buckingham 4:18
5 "Thrown Down" Nicks 4:02
6 "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" Dylan 4:11
7 "Say You Will" Nicks 3:49
8 "Steal Your Heart Away" Buckingham 3:33
9 "Silver Girl" Nicks 3:59
10 "Say Goodbye" Buckingham 3:26

We agree! SYW is a mess. And we also agree that LB tried to make this a piece of art with zero cooperation (or false cooperation) from any of them. I'm humming the great WTWCT, I Don't Mind. and Peacekeeper as we speak. ;) (all at once!!)

Also, I too wish this cutting edge music would have been on GOS. I disagree that he was peaking with cutting edge material.

Out of The Cradle was the peak for my "voided" opinion.
He thinks playing to a machine is cutting edge. Or, having someone push buttons for samples (on stage) of his guitar licks. Christine pretending to play keys is the new cutting edge. Stevie screeching into a mic on Outside the Rain last weekend is also cutting edge. Maybe it is me. :shocked:

But most importantly, LOVE YOU ELLE!! (and that wasn't sarcasm)

I never read about whose idea was it, but after all his books, the MF story DVD, etc., I always thought DR was Mick's idea.

Even though a lot of Lindsey's material was essentially "In the can" I have a hard time believing that there wasn't some level of adjustments/tweaking that took place in 2002.

20 years later and I'm still itching to hear whatever that awesome uptempo dobro track that Lindsey and Mick were jamming on at the beginning of the documentary.

What SYW lacked that helped Tusk work as a really long album was a stronger mix of slower-paced songs. SYW has a lot of uptempo, aggressive material. Goodbye Baby, Say Goodbye, and Silver Girl are the only ballads on the album. I think the 18 tracks are harder to digest because of this, which is why it already seems more palatable as two albums with ten tracks each. Love Minus Zeo probably would of been a good inclusion to balance things out.

Not Make Believe always felt unfinished to me and definitely not one of Stevie's stronger tracks. It's still great that it was released as a bonus track. My own preference would be to swap it out with a different Stevie track.

Yes!!!!! :thumbsup:

all my love right back to you! we just have a completely different taste in music :nod:

anyway - i hate WTWCT from SYW and I Don't Mind from Lindsey Buckingham is the song that has everything i dislike about Lindsey's music making (while song like On The Wrong Side has everything i love about Lindsey's music making!).

i don't think OOTC is edgy. i think Come / Murrow / Red Rover were different and interesting, and definitely edgier than general middle of the road soft rock Mac music. i don't see any of the Mac members music as edgy, but LB is more towards that end in some periods than other writers. and i am not saying 90s / original Gift of Screws period is Lindsey's "edgiest" period. i'm saying that he was at his creative peak at the time.

Steal Your Heart Away and Bleed to Love Her are not edgy or up-tempo songs.

wait, wasn't the opening track on DR actual Destiny Rules guitar parts?

i do love that guitar, and also their jamming at the opening of the doc.

As I'm thinking about SYW more...perhaps what I crave the most when listening to it is simplicity. A reprieve. That touch of simplicity really only occurs during Say Goodbye and Goodbye Baby.

Curious about your unfinished feeling. Is it because there aren't many verses? I think the best part of that song is John.

Agreed. I love the sound of that song, and that guitar. I'd love to know if it ever became a finished song. I'm pretty sure this is the model of guitar.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12520500236...ampid%3APL_CLK

I agree with what you write but for opposite reasons. I like the uptempo SYW songs. SYW is pure Lindsey and I dont understand the hate the album gets on this board. Its nothing short of brilliant. There is so much creativity on this album it blows me away. You get raw oddities like Illume and tremendous rockers like Everybody Finds Out. The Mac has never jammed like that before. You also get delicious pop songs like Thrown Down and a very good Running Through The Garden. IMHO people dont like it because it was not commercially successful. One thing I noticed about this board is the more successful the album is commercially, the more love it gets here. Of course Christine is missing and that would have improved the album. But for the love of God, we all bitch about wanting new music and creative stuff. SYW was that answer yet people hate it, I dont get it. We all wanted them to dive deep into creating creative music without the pressure of pop charts and SYW was that answer. The same people who praise Tusk for its coldness and aloofness criticize SYW for its coldness :lol:

As long as you're the authority....ON EVERYTHING.:p

FM BLOWS GOATS WITHOUT CHRISTINE. She's what made the threesome WORK. She balanced out the ditz and the weirdo.

SYW would have been much more palatable if they'd pared that elephant down to a circus monkey. A 10 banana circus monkey. It's too long, with too many Silver Girls. It's NOT A FUN ALBUM.

By comparison, BuckVie is a f*cking HOOT. It's oozing fun!

Oh I don't disagree with any of your points here, I agree! I love the sheer amount of rockers on the album. I think the album just has pacing issues because of it, which might be why people find it hard to digest.

You are 100% correct. Fleetwood Mac is Christine McVie. I only bought their albums post 1970 when she was in the band. She is the soul of the band. She cannot be replaced. I was not excited when SYW was coming out for these reasons. I hated Stevie's 2001 Trouble In Shanrgi-la album and IMHO its her second worst solo album. Most songs are so boring and there is not much music to the tracks. Many of them have the same beat and mood. I did buy SYW when it came out and it was good to meh. It wasn't until I listened to it more that I discovered its brilliance. Remember portable CD players. I used to run a lot in 2003 and I would run down Ocean Drive every night to this CD. I love every song on the album and can hear and appreciate the coloring Lindsey put on every song. I did not like Tango....too programmed. Too synth pop.....too slick ….fake voices programmed bass, etc. BTM was good and at least all songs were real instruments. But Stevie's songs were horrible and the new guys were meh at best. SYW is just as good as Tusk IMHO. Of course Christine would have made it so much better. But she was not there so you cant get everything you want. Buck/Vie is just as good if not better. Its warm and peppy and I prefer Chris to Stevie so that is maybe why I like it more. However, SYW is deep which is something I would not say about other Fleetwood Mac albums except maybe Future Games or Mystery To Me. Its a work of art and I appreciate it and glad they did it. Some of you guys bash the album as an oversight in their career almost wishing they did not record it. Musically, its one of their best albums. A Fleetwood Mac album with more than simple pop songs. Now THAT is something to cherish. But look who I am talking to. You don't appreciate the magic of the Oh Daddy track. :eek:

according to the filmmakers, it was Lindsey. One of the guys has a relative whose kids attended the same school as Lindsey's kids, and that guy met LB at a kid's birthday party at the relative's house. And that's where the conversations started about filming. From there the guy and his biz partner were asked to meet and present some of their stuff etc. (at meeting they where they say they thought they didn't present themselves well and thought they'd lost the gig).:shrug:

But he later called them and offered it to them. It would be interesting to know how the discussions/negotiations with the other band members went over it. Although they've filmed themselves recording other projects so that wouldn't have been a new idea.

Agreed there has to be lots of juicy stuff left out. They did say that the rights to it belonged to the band or Warner's (they weren't sure) but def not with them so they had no say in putting more out, or putting out blu ray or any of that. Agree that Irving and team won't let anything out that would tarnish the Legend's image at this stage. Though I wouldn't be surprised if some LB snark/eye rolls got left out too. :eek:

One thing I felt they soft-soaped was Sheryl Crow's bit. They said that she unilaterally decided after doing keyboards on one song (Say You Will I think right?) she decided it wasn't a good fit or something. When we know LB was not a big fan of it at all and one would imagine didn't mince words in expressing this to the band..:shrug: He certainly said it in a few interviews.

Totally agree with everyone mentioning that opening bit of music!!!:woohoo:

We agree 100% on the initial point.

SYW as good as Tusk?:lol::lol::lol:

Again, IF it had been pared down to 10 songs, it would've been easier to swallow. AND, $tevie's songs should have a time limit(I say this about every Dead/jam band as well). 4 minutes Old Goat, and your droning dirge is over. Hell, I'd support a 3:30 limit on her songs. Just like when $he babbles ON and ON onstage, $he just has NO IDEA OF WHEN TO STFU.
"I love hearing myself drone on and on, and so does the world!". No $tevie, we don't. STFU.

Oh Daddy? You're still beatin' that horse? It's been dried up glue for a couple of years now...

How long did she run on and on at MusicCares?? :eek:

Who cares what's easier to swallow. You act like a Fleetwood Mac album is a poison pill or something. Commercially, YES the cheezy critics may have liked it more. However is this not a board with Fleetwood Mac fans that likes all sort of tracks whether commercial, non commercial or unconventional? I am with Lindsey on this one. I consider the album a piece of art and I appreciate the additional tracks. You sound just like Stevie in the documentary. Your story is her story.
And another thing......Come is better than Not That Funny. Put that in your top hat and scarf and smoke it.
Lindsey's guitar playing does not offend me nor should he have to apologize for it.

At least long enough for waltzes and excessive smirking.

Well, there's no accounting for taste...as long as you realize you're in the minority.:lol:

NTF isn't one of my favorites. I've never understood why Lindsey loves it so.