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bwboy 10-08-2018 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netter75 (Post 1238863)
Stand Back: This song is never performed *terribly* but when literally every recording is better vocally and musically, this one doesn't have much of a reason to exist. Fleetwood Mac adds nothing interesting here.

This was pretty much the only thing I disagreed with you on- I think this version sounds fantastic, and is certainly my favorite live recording of the song. Rick sounds great, too.

I also wish the full concert could be released, but it won't happen :(

KenshiMaster16 10-08-2018 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwboy (Post 1238890)
This was pretty much the only thing I disagreed with you on- I think this version sounds fantastic, and is certainly my favorite live recording of the song. Rick sounds great, too.

I also wish the full concert could be released, but it won't happen :(

I love this version of Stand Back, too, but I think the Live in Boston version beats it just barely. The bongo intro and how upbeat it is always makes me groove. Plus, the energy bursting from it is unmatched in my eyes. It just goes off once it fully starts.

Netter75 10-08-2018 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenshiMaster16 (Post 1238989)
I love this version of Stand Back, too, but I think the Live in Boston version beats it just barely. The bongo intro and how upbeat it is always makes me groove. Plus, the energy bursting from it is unmatched in my eyes. It just goes off once it fully starts.

I would agree with this. I may have a lower opinion than most people on the Tango tour version- there's nothing wrong about it but there's no stand out moments either imo. I'm curious as to what other people like about it, maybe I'm missing something?

Now I CAN get behind the Live in Boston version! Her vocals are on fire, the bongo intro is very well done, Lindsey on guitar kicks ass... there's just so much energy. It totally justifies putting the song in the mac set-list (controversial opinion, even if it did wear out its welcome).

Macfan4life 10-08-2018 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netter75 (Post 1238863)
Despite what others say, it's definitely worth checking out, as a relic if nothing else of when editors had a very misguided view of what was appropriate for a concert video. There's one great performance, a *few* decent songs (with caveats) and a bunch of crappers.

Worth it for:

Isn't It Midnight: I detailed why I love this version of this song in an earlier post in this thread. Always makes my "best of" Mac playlists.

Seven Wonders: The only song Stevie didn't butcher. It almost benefits from the chiller Klonopin vocals.

The Chain: A decent rendition of this song. Billy doesn't do bad with Lindsey's parts and Stevie's additions are fine. Chris is inaudible though.

Songbird: Ditto

Little Lies: A bit lacking in energy but probably the best pro-shot recording we have of this song since it wasn't performed that often until recently.

I Loved Another Woman: Vito does this old song justice, even if it seems out of place next to literally everything else in the set. The editing does it's best to suck the energy out of the song too.


and NOT worth if for.:

Dreams: Such a lazy performance of this song, and the editing is especially heinous. There are far better performances of this song, even in the Klonopin era.

World Turning: Instead of a drum solo it has Mick playing with that MIDI sound vest. Pass.

Gold Dust Woman: See previous posts.

Oh Well: Not a fan of Billy as a singer so this is purely personal preference. It is musically performed well though.

Stand Back: This song is never performed *terribly* but when literally every recording is better vocally and musically, this one doesn't have much of a reason to exist. Fleetwood Mac adds nothing interesting here.

Everywhere: The editing on this is horrible but the song itself is done well and Christine sounds fine. The ISSUE is that the chorus is ruined (imo) by Stevie rudely interjecting "I WANNA BE WITH YOU" out of time with Chris, like a gopher poking it's head out of a hole to ruin your day and immediately disappear. It disrupts the flow/groove of the song so badly it's almost funny.

Don't Stop: It's only a partial recording and it's played over the credits. Lame.

It's a shame the unedited performance isn't available, as the removal of that editing may help the viewing experience. Also the cut performance of Brown Eyes is a damn shame as it was performed so well on this tour. Other cut performances include SYLM, Blue Letter, Rattlesnake Shake, Over My Head, Don't Let Me Down Again, HAEWAFY, You Make Loving Fun, and GYOW. Rhiannon and Gypsy were dropped by this point in the tour.

Ha Ha. You made me have a flashback from 1988. I was 18 and playing this concert from the VCR. During Everywhere when Stevie does her "I wanna be with you". My sister was in another room and thought it was my mom singing along. LMAO
Then she said, "oh that's Stevie coming in late.

Macfan4life 10-08-2018 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenshiMaster16 (Post 1238989)
I love this version of Stand Back, too, but I think the Live in Boston version beats it just barely. The bongo intro and how upbeat it is always makes me groove. Plus, the energy bursting from it is unmatched in my eyes. It just goes off once it fully starts.

What I love about the song is the late 80's Stevie's trademark "Standin in it" As the song already ended. She does not sound drunk like during Red Rocks.

Macfan4life 10-08-2018 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieandChris (Post 1238857)
I have never seen this video, it sounds like it is a horrid performance!

Two worst performances of Gold Dust Woman. In 1981 and 1983 Stevie's band did a much darker rocking version that is the best to this date IMHO.

1989
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCI_6U2TNak

1987
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyJF...=RDXyJF-mB6q94

bwboy 10-08-2018 05:42 PM

Hmmm... I'm gonna have to check out the Boston version again. I don't remember thinking it was that great, or at least that memorable. Maybe there was some sort of vocal thing Stevie did during the Boston version that I didn't care for? Something like "uh-uh" or like that?

Netter75 10-09-2018 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfan4life (Post 1239010)
Two worst performances of Gold Dust Woman. In 1981 and 1983 Stevie's band did a much darker rocking version that is the best to this date IMHO.

1989
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCI_6U2TNak

1987
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyJF...=RDXyJF-mB6q94

What's interesting is that the '89 version of the song is actually kinda cool musically. Very cheesy keyboards but they definitely put an eerie, twisted mood on the song. It's a shame her vocals are so lifeless and her performance is so blah.

Macfan4life 10-09-2018 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netter75 (Post 1239235)
What's interesting is that the '89 version of the song is actually kinda cool musically. Very cheesy keyboards but they definitely put an eerie, twisted mood on the song. It's a shame her vocals are so lifeless and her performance is so blah.

Your statement about an eerie twisted mood more describes the Wild Heart tour version. The 1989 version is a cheezy keyboard mess IMHO

Netter75 10-09-2018 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfan4life (Post 1239246)
Your statement about an eerie twisted mood more describes the Wild Heart tour version. The 1989 version is a cheezy keyboard mess IMHO

Gotta admit, sometimes I get in the mood and really love a little 80s keyboard mess :lol:.



That horrible doorbell sound will forever hold place in my heart :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Justin Reach 11-24-2018 02:29 PM

You've got to have Lizard People on a deluxe edition, it's better than half the album!

Conga 11-25-2018 01:44 AM

"Pain in the balls.... of your feet"

I unironically love Lizard People.

Villavic 07-22-2019 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwboy (Post 1221057)
It seems unlikely a Deluxe Edition of Behind the Mask will be released

Now that Lindsey is not in the band, probably Mick is thinking in this idea. I would be glad to get some new material from those sessions. But yes I agree it still seems unlikely, since the album was not enough succesful.

jbrownsjr 08-02-2019 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conga (Post 1244475)
"Pain in the balls.... of your feet"

I unironically love Lizard People.

I want the 20 min version of Lizard People. :laugh:

David 08-24-2019 11:42 AM

My wish list for Behind the Mask involves it never having happened.

secret love 08-24-2019 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (Post 1253936)
My wish list for Behind the Mask involves it never having happened.

Right.

Let's wipe away Behind the Mask and Skies the Limit and all the rest - even the one Stevie soft spot The Second Time.

Heresy!

David 08-25-2019 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secret love (Post 1253944)
Right.

Let's wipe away Behind the Mask and Skies the Limit and all the rest - even the one Stevie soft spot The Second Time.

Heresy!

To push my iconoclasm in everybody's face, I actually rather like Second Time. Stevie drops her pretensions and poses, and lets us hear her at a vulnerable moment. It truly feels much more authentic to me than Freedom or Affairs of the Heart - I'm not bluffing. By 1990, I was really bored with the Stevie Nicks mystique and wanted something different. I wanted to scrape off all that "moon spirit" crap (which was a lot less charismatic in a zonked-out singer in her mid 40s than it was fifteen years earlier) by then and see a rebirth of Stevie's artistry, whatever it actually looked like. And I suppose there are other moments on the album that are good enough - good hooks, good drumming, good vocal harmonies (because Rick and Billy were superb harmony singers, which they never got any credit for in Fleetwood Mac). But the album was mostly a throwaway. People have accused me of coming to that conclusion only in hindsight, but that's not true. I haven't changed my mind about it since 1990. The sound of it isn't even desperately commercial (the way Say You Will or Mirage always sound like they're trying to "tap in" to something in the radio audience), but it's the sound of a band that has kind of given up and just wants to take the road most traveled. It has that air of grabbing anyone who walks by that we were talking about in another thread. I don't think there was much inspiration in the people who made Behind the Mask, including songs, instrumentation (it's very impersonal - none of those quirks you came to associate with the instrumentalists in Fleetwood Mac from 1967 to 1987), cover art, and so on. Even the B sides are hopeless. The decisions the band made about almost everything give me the sense of having been drawn out of a hat quite at random. It's a good lesson for Fleetwood Mac and other bands: If you're not feeling particularly inspired, keep the work low key. Don't try making a "statement." That's the beauty of the band's next album, Time. It isn't any more brilliant or any less generic, but it's low key and modest, and that gives it a little charm.

secret love 08-30-2019 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (Post 1253950)
To push my iconoclasm in everybody's face, I actually rather like Second Time. Stevie drops her pretensions and poses, and lets us hear her at a vulnerable moment. It truly feels much more authentic to me than Freedom or Affairs of the Heart - I'm not bluffing. By 1990, I was really bored with the Stevie Nicks mystique and wanted something different. I wanted to scrape off all that "moon spirit" crap (which was a lot less charismatic in a zonked-out singer in her mid 40s than it was fifteen years earlier) by then and see a rebirth of Stevie's artistry, whatever it actually looked like. And I suppose there are other moments on the album that are good enough - good hooks, good drumming, good vocal harmonies (because Rick and Billy were superb harmony singers, which they never got any credit for in Fleetwood Mac). But the album was mostly a throwaway. People have accused me of coming to that conclusion only in hindsight, but that's not true. I haven't changed my mind about it since 1990. The sound of it isn't even desperately commercial (the way Say You Will or Mirage always sound like they're trying to "tap in" to something in the radio audience), but it's the sound of a band that has kind of given up and just wants to take the road most traveled. It has that air of grabbing anyone who walks by that we were talking about in another thread. I don't think there was much inspiration in the people who made Behind the Mask, including songs, instrumentation (it's very impersonal - none of those quirks you came to associate with the instrumentalists in Fleetwood Mac from 1967 to 1987), cover art, and so on. Even the B sides are hopeless. The decisions the band made about almost everything give me the sense of having been drawn out of a hat quite at random. It's a good lesson for Fleetwood Mac and other bands: If you're not feeling particularly inspired, keep the work low key. Don't try making a "statement." That's the beauty of the band's next album, Time. It isn't any more brilliant or any less generic, but it's low key and modest, and that gives it a little charm.

Read this post around the time you sent it up onto the boards and did not know what to write in response, David.

Are you a music reviewer in your day job? If not, perhaps you need a career change. Are you David Wilde?

aleuzzi 09-15-2019 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (Post 1253950)
To push my iconoclasm in everybody's face, I actually rather like Second Time. Stevie drops her pretensions and poses, and lets us hear her at a vulnerable moment. It truly feels much more authentic to me than Freedom or Affairs of the Heart - I'm not bluffing. By 1990, I was really bored with the Stevie Nicks mystique and wanted something different. I wanted to scrape off all that "moon spirit" crap (which was a lot less charismatic in a zonked-out singer in her mid 40s than it was fifteen years earlier) by then and see a rebirth of Stevie's artistry, whatever it actually looked like. And I suppose there are other moments on the album that are good enough - good hooks, good drumming, good vocal harmonies (because Rick and Billy were superb harmony singers, which they never got any credit for in Fleetwood Mac). But the album was mostly a throwaway. People have accused me of coming to that conclusion only in hindsight, but that's not true. I haven't changed my mind about it since 1990. The sound of it isn't even desperately commercial (the way Say You Will or Mirage always sound like they're trying to "tap in" to something in the radio audience), but it's the sound of a band that has kind of given up and just wants to take the road most traveled. It has that air of grabbing anyone who walks by that we were talking about in another thread. I don't think there was much inspiration in the people who made Behind the Mask, including songs, instrumentation (it's very impersonal - none of those quirks you came to associate with the instrumentalists in Fleetwood Mac from 1967 to 1987), cover art, and so on. Even the B sides are hopeless. The decisions the band made about almost everything give me the sense of having been drawn out of a hat quite at random. It's a good lesson for Fleetwood Mac and other bands: If you're not feeling particularly inspired, keep the work low key. Don't try making a "statement." That's the beauty of the band's next album, Time. It isn't any more brilliant or any less generic, but it's low key and modest, and that gives it a little charm.

I have never disliked a Mac album as much as BEHIND THE MASK. I have felt this way since the day it was released. In my opinion, only “Save Me” achieves the minimum standard. Your comments about Stevie are right on: by 1990, I was open to hearing anything other than the tired mystical fantasies. When “Blue Denim” arrived a couple years later, I was genuinely enthusiastic about her for the first time since “Imperial Hotel.”

I did like TIME, in part because it surfaced from nowhere, and because Christine’s vocals were excellent (even if the keyboard she was playing sounded awful). Add to this that the band were no longer pretending to be what they were, were stretching out and trying new things....Bekka and Billy were earthy and modest. I liked their chemistry.

Macfan4life 09-18-2019 05:37 AM

BTM has lots of fantastic qualities.

You can hear Christine playing keyboards (again) on so many songs and her style is revealed again and is so refreshing compared to the programmed tracks on Tango

You hear the classic Mac rhythm section again on all the songs. Even songs that are not great like Stand on the Rock, the Mac's rhythm section is fired up

Love all the vocalists singing together. Stevie and Billy. Christine and Billy. Stevie and Rick. No need to fake Stevie's voice like on Tango

I posted this before but I think half the album is excellent. Its not pop driven and holds up. The other half is not great and pulls the album down a bit.

I am in the minority but live the album cover. I understand none of them wanted to be on the cover so with that in mind what could you do. I love the mystery and so much tiny detail does tell a story.

Like Tango, Stevie brought some poor songs. In her haze, she was not writing great songs anymore and it would have been worth it to pull out an oldie.

Its comparing apples and oranges but I like BTM better than Tango. Its a group effort and Christine shines with her songs and keyboard playing. Gosh just listening to her layers or bridgey solos are amazing. You could strip all vocals and music and just listen to the keyboards on the songs and know its Fleetwood Mac. That is how dominant her style of playing is.

jbrownsjr 09-18-2019 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfan4life (Post 1254208)
BTM has lots of fantastic qualities.

You can hear Christine playing keyboards (again) on so many songs and her style is revealed again and is so refreshing compared to the programmed tracks on Tango

You hear the classic Mac rhythm section again on all the songs. Even songs that are not great like Stand on the Rock, the Mac's rhythm section is fired up

Love all the vocalists singing together. Stevie and Billy. Christine and Billy. Stevie and Rick. No need to fake Stevie's voice like on Tango

I posted this before but I think half the album is excellent. Its not pop driven and holds up. The other half is not great and pulls the album down a bit.

I am in the minority but live the album cover. I understand none of them wanted to be on the cover so with that in mind what could you do. I love the mystery and so much tiny detail does tell a story.

Like Tango, Stevie brought some poor songs. In her haze, she was not writing great songs anymore and it would have been worth it to pull out an oldie.

Its comparing apples and oranges but I like BTM better than Tango. Its a group effort and Christine shines with her songs and keyboard playing. Gosh just listening to her layers or bridgey solos are amazing. You could strip all vocals and music and just listen to the keyboards on the songs and know its Fleetwood Mac. That is how dominant her style of playing is.

She dominated the BTM tour, too. Really stole the show. $tevie was in a slow dancing haze.

On Ice 09-19-2019 09:12 AM

Quote:

She dominated the BTM tour, too. Really stole the show. $tevie was in a slow dancing haze.
Christine had an amazing run from Tango through ITMT where her voice was crystal clear and had even better pitch than the heyday years where both she and Stevie were hit and miss, mostly due to the insane tour schedules.

Although a dark period for Stevie, her voice was much better on the BTM tour than Tango where she was basically a flat croak at least early on. Not so on BTM where she was clear and had a strong tone.

Overall, BTM I think was a big disappointment for the Mac as they had high hopes for it. In hindsight it was half really good and half boring and unmemorable, mostly due to the production. It would have been much better with Dashut and Calliat at the helm.

jbrownsjr 09-20-2019 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by On Ice (Post 1254216)
Christine had an amazing run from Tango through ITMT where her voice was crystal clear and had even better pitch than the heyday years where both she and Stevie were hit and miss, mostly due to the insane tour schedules.

Although a dark period for Stevie, her voice was much better on the BTM tour than Tango where she was basically a flat croak at least early on. Not so on BTM where she was clear and had a strong tone.

Overall, BTM I think was a big disappointment for the Mac as they had high hopes for it. In hindsight it was half really good and half boring and unmemorable, mostly due to the production. It would have been much better with Dashut and Calliat at the helm.

Agree on Nicks' voice. Agree on BTM.


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